Starocci

[lu_alum]

6 hours ago, NM1965 said:

How does it work then? 

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2023-24D1MWR_QualifierAllocationCriteria.pdf

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2023-24D1MWR_PreChampsManual.pdf

[wrestlingest2010]

I expect him to step on the mat twice at Big Tens and default out and wrestle at NCAAs. 

The defaults 100% still count as "wrestling" but they're more punitive now since you need to do it twice.

For someone with only 12 matches, Starocci's seed could tank as low as 6. 

[ionel]

1 hour ago, wrestlingest2010 said:

I expect him to step on the mat twice at Big Tens and default out and wrestle at NCAAs. 

The defaults 100% still count as "wrestling" but they're more punitive now since you need to do it twice.

For someone with only 12 matches, Starocci's seed could tank as low as 6. 

And the 6 seed would be very fair to everyone.  If Starocci is not injured and the 1 (and seeds play out) then he has the 4 in the semi and 2 in finals.  If he goes in at 6 injured then everyone above bumbs up one.  Let's say he recovery/figured out how to wrestle with injury by NCAA and is still the best.  As 6 he has the 3 in the qrt same guy that wouldve been 4 in the semi.  He then gets the 2 in semi the guy who would've been 3 prior and then the guy who would've been the 2 in the finals.  So now he goes thru the prior 4 & 3 & 2 instead of just the 4 &2.  Prob the least difference from being the healthy 1 seed. 

[wrestlingest2010]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

And the 6 seed would be very fair to everyone.  If Starocci is not injured and the 1 (and seeds play out) then he has the 4 in the semi and 2 in finals.  If he goes in at 6 injured then everyone above bumbs up one.  Let's say he recovery/figured out how to wrestle with injury by NCAA and is still the best.  As 6 he has the 3 in the qrt same guy that wouldve been 4 in the semi.  He then gets the 2 in semi the guy who would've been 3 prior and then the guy who would've been the 2 in the finals.  So now he goes thru the prior 4 & 3 & 2 instead of just the 4 &2.  Prob the least difference from being the healthy 1 seed. 

Absolutely. Candidly, in a case like Starocci where you can't tell how much an injury will affect him, just keep it simple, go with what the matrix says. Had he wrestled more matches, he would have a RPI.

As great as Starocci is, he:

1. Wrestled only 12 matches this year

2. Missed a match against Shane Griffith

3. Will go 0-2 officially at conferences

Thus his seeding matrix gets napalmed

[Hammerlock3]

Even if the gameplan is as lame as block off and stall on his feet, get an escape if he has to go down in the second, ride his butt off...He's still gonna be really hard to beat.

[Rassling]

4 hours ago, wrestlingest2010 said:

I expect him to step on the mat twice at Big Tens and default out and wrestle at NCAAs. 

The defaults 100% still count as "wrestling" but they're more punitive now since you need to do it twice.

For someone with only 12 matches, Starocci's seed could tank as low as 6. 

Wow

[Rassling]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

And the 6 seed would be very fair to everyone.  If Starocci is not injured and the 1 (and seeds play out) then he has the 4 in the semi and 2 in finals.  If he goes in at 6 injured then everyone above bumbs up one.  Let's say he recovery/figured out how to wrestle with injury by NCAA and is still the best.  As 6 he has the 3 in the qrt same guy that wouldve been 4 in the semi.  He then gets the 2 in semi the guy who would've been 3 prior and then the guy who would've been the 2 in the finals.  So now he goes thru the prior 4 & 3 & 2 instead of just the 4 &2.  Prob the least difference from being the healthy 1 seed. 

amazing stuff

[ugarles]

12 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

By requiring 2 injury defaults they eliminate the option of one injury default, one medical forfeit resulting in one loss on the wrestler's record. Now you have to take two losses.

Interesting. Thanks.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Even if the gameplan is as lame as block off and stall on his feet, get an escape if he has to go down in the second, ride his butt off...He's still gonna be really hard to beat.

I know that I don't want to be on bottom with a bum knee.  Could be tough to get back pressure, and then there's any number of legal ways the top guy can put me in a lot of pain.

[NM1965]

I wouldn't skip B10s just because of the medals which are the perfect size for coasters on the coffee table. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

23 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I wouldn't skip B10s just because of the medals which are the perfect size for coasters on the coffee table. 

Poor McDonough.

[PSUDad97]

13 hours ago, wrestlingest2010 said:

Absolutely. Candidly, in a case like Starocci where you can't tell how much an injury will affect him, just keep it simple, go with what the matrix says. Had he wrestled more matches, he would have a RPI.

3. Will go 0-2 officially at conferences

Thus his seeding matrix gets napalmed

For what it's worth, he would only have 1 loss via Medical Default.  You can't medical default then go out and do it again in the next match.

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I know that I don't want to be on bottom with a bum knee.  Could be tough to get back pressure, and then there's any number of legal ways the top guy can put me in a lot of pain.

yeah but he can't take neutral if its 0-0 starting the 2nd and its his choice. 0-0 with riding time in the third? Sure.

[ugarles]

1 hour ago, PSUDad97 said:

For what it's worth, he would only have 1 loss via Medical Default.  You can't medical default then go out and do it again in the next match.

Yes you can, per the NCAA rulebook for 23-24 and 24-25. I've checked, and there's nothing that says you can't do it twice in one event.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, PSUDad97 said:

For what it's worth, he would only have 1 loss via Medical Default.  You can't medical default then go out and do it again in the next match.

To be clear, there is no medical default. There is a medical forfeit or an injury default. And the two are treated very differently in the rules.

[BigRedFan]

22 minutes ago, ugarles said:

Yes you can, per the NCAA rulebook for 23-24 and 24-25. I've checked, and there's nothing that says you can't do it twice in one event.

Except a Medical Forfeit is when a wrestler does not take the mat at all.  No recovery from that.  An injury default is when a wrestler starts but does not finish a match.  The wrestler can compete in their next match.

Edited March 4 by BigRedFan

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, BigRedFan said:

Except a Medical Default is when a wrestler does not take the mat at all.  No recovery from that.  An injury default is when a wrestler starts but does not finish a match.  The wrestler can compete in their next match.

 

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

To be clear, there is no medical default. There is a medical forfeit or an injury default. And the two are treated very differently in the rules.

 

[ugarles]

Just now, BigRedFan said:

Except a Medical Default is when a wrestler does not take the mat at all.  No recovery from that.  An injury default is when a wrestler starts but does not finish a match.  The wrestler can compete in their next match.

If you MFF, you are done. If you MFF in the first round of the main bracket OR get an injury default in the top of the bracket and MFF in the first round of consy, you have not participated in two matches and will not be eligible for an at-large.

[gimpeltf]

1 minute ago, BigRedFan said:

Except a Medical Default is when a wrestler does not take the mat at all.  No recovery from that.  An injury default is when a wrestler starts but does not finish a match.  The wrestler can compete in their next match.

That's a Medical Forfeit. You take the mat for a default and don't finish for whatever reason. A forfeit is when you don't take the mat at all for whatever reason.

[ugarles]

3 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Except a Medical Forfeit is when a wrestler does not take the mat at all.  No recovery from that.  An injury default is when a wrestler starts but does not finish a match.  The wrestler can compete in their next match.

correct, so they can ID and then ID again in wrestlebacks, which is what I said, but was disagreed with by someone who was conflating the specific nomenclature of two separate categories.

[Rassling]

https://basicbluesnation.com/penn-state-wrestling-news-cael-sanderson-gives-update-on-carter-starocci-progress/

update

[Show_Me]

On 3/4/2024 at 11:10 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

To be clear, there is no medical default. There is a medical forfeit or an injury default. And the two are treated very differently in the rules.

It amazes me ... year after year after year ... how much confusion exists among wrestling fans on the simple differences between a medical forfeit and an Injury Default

[creek chub]

I hope he’s 100% healthy and Lewis gets another crack at him

[ugarles]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:04 AM, Rassling said:

https://basicbluesnation.com/penn-state-wrestling-news-cael-sanderson-gives-update-on-carter-starocci-progress/

update

Does Starocci get a bye with the 1 seed (in a 14 team tournament) or are the byes randomly assigned? Lucky dog if you're a 14-seed getting a default and finding yourself a win away on top or bottom from one of 8 bids.

[Hammerlock3]

10 minutes ago, creek chub said:

I hope he’s 100% healthy and Lewis gets another crack at him

i'm more of a 90% guy...