Pan-Am Olympic Qualifier 2/28 - 3/1

[Mr. PeanutButter]

6 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

In the new wrestling world of permeable borders, we cheer for laundry:

 

 

It's an honor to represent your country

[Le duke]

Bekzod potentially, if he is still wrestling.

Just had a great Yarygin. Will likely be in State College this summer.


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[SocraTease]

1 minute ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

It's an honor to represent your country

Sometimes ... unless your country is ruled by a dictator, authoritarian, theocrat, or clown and is oppressive to its own people and/or other people.   In such cases, it might be better to fly a kite than a flag. 

 

[1032004]

40 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

For any weights not qualified heading into pan ams, having the trials tournament before pan ams, that’s the only change.  I think it takes care of it.  

Meh, didn’t most of the top guys have the opportunity to challenge for this (and of course Yianni did)?  One notable exception I believe being Spencer

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Meh, didn’t most of the top guys have the opportunity to challenge for this (and of course Yianni did)?  One notable exception I believe being Spencer

Gilman had a chance to participate.  Chose not to, and then trashed Yianni for not wrestling match 2 with a concussion.  Basically called him a craven.

Spencer had a chance to participate in the trials process last year.  Won two matches at US Open and forfeited out...

Edited March 2 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Le duke]

Gilman had a chance to participate.  Chose not to, and then trashed Yianni for not wretling match 2 with a concussion.  Basically called him a craven.
Spencer had a chance to participate in the trials process last year.  Won two matches at US Open and forfeited out...

As someone with two young kids, I’m really surprised that Gilman doesn’t “get it” yet.

It seemed like he had become a different guy, for a while. Like some of that German philosophy had finally rubbed off on him.

Oh well.


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[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

As someone with two young kids, I’m really surprised that Gilman doesn’t “get it” yet.

It seemed like he had become a different guy, for a while.

Oh well.


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I think he goes hard for whomever "his team" is.

I just can't believe he was so dull to realize that he didn't even bother to wrestle off for the spot, but attacked Yianni for not wrestling match 2 concussed.

Gilman didn't care enough to try!

[wrestle87]

50 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Meh, didn’t most of the top guys have the opportunity to challenge for this (and of course Yianni did)?  One notable exception I believe being Spencer

Are you saying "Meh" to the concept that getting the delegates at those weights earlier would allow them to actually take personal ownership in the trials process, and thus would perform better?

I don't see how it can be argued that our guys are comparatively underinvested, even if over-skilled, compared to their competition, since the US basically requires selfless performance for "the good of the weight", but putting in the hard work does nothing to guarantee the spot for the guy who actually wins it.

That's entirely backward.  

As a comparison, imagine if all college teams had their wrestle offs AFTER the conference tournaments.  That would be the identical analogy for the US schedule around pan-ams and olympic trials.  

Edit: My "enthusiasm" on this topic is not aimed at you, it is at the fact that, for the Nth time in a row, the US is in a position to prematurely burn the lifetime dreams of two entire weight classes of guys.  This is where my passion on this topic comes from.  The olympics are literally a lifelong goal for thousands of guys.  It is, however, contingent upon there actually being an available spot.  No matter what we say about individual athletes, the US is a top 3, arguable top 2 Freestyle country.  For us to be in a place where we could miss out on 1/3rd of total weight classes does a major disservice to the athletes themselves.

Edited March 2 by wrestle87

[SocraTease]

29 minutes ago, Le duke said:

As someone with two young kids, I’m really surprised that Gilman doesn’t “get it” yet.

It seemed like he had become a different guy, for a while. Like some of that German philosophy had finally rubbed off on him.

Oh well.


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My guess (and it is just speculation) is that Gilman (a) thought Richards could likely get it done at Pan Ams, especially since Richards had previously beaten him; (b) cutting a lot of weight that close to trials wasn't especially alluring; and (c) being with his family and new kids was important to him.    

As for German philosophy, I think Gilman is drawn more to the Stoics and the Pragmatists. 

PS: I don't know what he said exactly about Yianni, but Gilman fancies himself a warrior who goes into battle full on and so that may have been his stance toward Yianni.  He apparently reads a lot of history, particularly military history.   That's a possible explanation rather than justification for his words or tweet or whatever smoke signal he sent into the ether.

Edited March 2 by SocraTease

[pokemonster]

5 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

My guess (and it is just speculation) is that Gilman (a) thought Richards could likely get it done at Pan Ams, especially since Richards had previously beaten him; (b) cutting a lot of weight that close to trials wasn't especially alluring; and (c) being with his family and new kids was important to him.    

As for German philosophy, I think Gilman is drawn more to the Stoics and the Pragmatists. 

Doesn't seem like much is going on between Gilman's ears. 

[VakAttack]

23 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

My guess (and it is just speculation) is that Gilman (a) thought Richards could likely get it done at Pan Ams, especially since Richards had previously beaten him; (b) cutting a lot of weight that close to trials wasn't especially alluring; and (c) being with his family and new kids was important to him.    

As for German philosophy, I think Gilman is drawn more to the Stoics and the Pragmatists. 

PS: I don't know what he said exactly about Yianni, but Gilman fancies himself a warrior who goes into battle full on and so that may have been his stance toward Yianni.  He apparently reads a lot of history, particularly military history.   That's a possible explanation rather than justification for his words or tweet or whatever smoke signal he sent into the ether.

Gilman Khan mocking someone for not wrestling match 2 when he didn't even show up for match 1 is objectively hilarious. 

[Tripnsweep]

 

kind of what today made me think of.

[1032004]

8 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Are you saying "Meh" to the concept that getting the delegates at those weights earlier would allow them to actually take personal ownership in the trials process, and thus would perform better?

I don't see how it can be argued that our guys are comparatively underinvested, even if over-skilled, compared to their competition, since the US basically requires selfless performance for "the good of the weight", but putting in the hard work does nothing to guarantee the spot for the guy who actually wins it.

That's entirely backward.  

As a comparison, imagine if all college teams had their wrestle offs AFTER the conference tournaments.  That would be the identical analogy for the US schedule around pan-ams and olympic trials.  

Edit: My "enthusiasm" on this topic is not aimed at you, it is at the fact that, for the Nth time in a row, the US is in a position to prematurely burn the lifetime dreams of two entire weight classes of guys.  This is where my passion on this topic comes from.  The olympics are literally a lifelong goal for thousands of guys.  It is, however, contingent upon there actually being an available spot.  No matter what we say about individual athletes, the US is a top 3, arguable top 2 Freestyle country.  For us to be in a place where we could miss out on 1/3rd of total weight classes does a major disservice to the athletes themselves.

I mean I don’t hate the idea, but I’m not sure it would be an “identical analogy” unless you had 3 chances to qualify for NCAA’s, 2 of them occurred 5 and 10 months before NCAA’s and one was in fact after the wrestle off?

 

[bnwtwg]

Courtesy of Reattack. #teamgomez

[CHROMEBIRD]

19 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

oh boy, the comments on twitter and elsewhere on the interwebs have been predictably salty.

Today sucked. My question is, what changes should be enacted to avoid this type of situation? As it stands, the winner at Olympic trials will have a few weeks to recover from a brutal tournament only to go and battle it out in yet another tough tournament. Doesn't sound ideal. Next quad, do we open up the pan am qualifier spot to any national team member that wants to challenge for it? Hand pick our rep? Do we move olympic trials a couple weeks up to avoid conflicts with the LCQ? This last option, although potentially less of a conflict with the LCQ, does put our best NCAA wrestlers in a bit of a bind

LCQ is in Turkey about 2.5 weeks after trials, so our reps won't have a ton of time to travel, setup camp, and acclimate. The tough thing about moving up OTT/WTT is that it already presses up pretty close to NCAAs and our own US LCQ. I like the process now, giving our standing reps first choice of participating in qualifying events. Letting anyone wrestle-off for the spot anytime disrespects our reps and defeats the purpose of having a national team or trials.  Things haven't fallen in our favor under the current system this time, but it is what it is. I feel better about the Olympic LCQ taking the top 3 finishers and like our chances of sending someone to Paris at 57 and 65.

[pokemonster]

Sounds like Vito, Gilman, and Daton all had a chance to compete here. I wonder if anyone had the chance to challenge Nick Lee? 

 

[1032004]

54 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Sounds like Vito, Gilman, and Daton all had a chance to compete here. I wonder if anyone had the chance to challenge Nick Lee? 

 

Yianni did challenge him and lost/got injured 

[SocraTease]

Some people are discounting the fact that the US has in recent history dominated Pan Ams.  We just swept the preceding Pan Am Championships (not the Olympic Qualifier) in all ten weights and many of the US wrestlers tech-ed or pinned their way through the brackets without giving up a single point. 

And many of the very top US guys weren't even there (e.g., Taylor, Vito, Zain, Borroughs, Cox).

My point: it was reasonable for other guys at 57KG and 65KG to believe that Nick Lee and Richards would qualify the weights given US dominance, especially since they only had to finish in the top 2.  

Yes, Retherford failed to qualify 65KG a few years back but in my view that was a fluke.  He was beating his opponent and had him in a leg lace but got caught and pinned.

[cowcards]

The problem isn't anything other than the guys that went didn't get the job done. It's that simple. They were both favored to win and had beaten their opponent previously.

If other people wanted to try and qualify the spot they should've qualified to even wrestle in the tournament. They should've beat Zane or Nick then they should've qualified for the World Championships last year. Or challenged and beat them and taken their spots. They didn't and that's on them. If you don't want your fate in someone else's hands then make sure it's in yours.

[Yellow_Medal]

Do they not wrestle the finals?

[Spladle08]

16 minutes ago, Yellow_Medal said:

Do they not wrestle the finals?

No reason to, finalists qualify, thats the prize 

[Yellow_Medal]

No reason to, finalists qualify, thats the prize 

That’s what I figured, but wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing some of those good matchups. Thanks.

[pokemonster]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:48 PM, nhs67 said:

To do what?  Also lose?

Because that was all he did, too.

I knew I'd get somebody to bite, lol. Loved watching the guy but he always came up short.