Mesenbrink Ranking: enough is enough

[billyhoyle]

I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4?  If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4?  If it were me, i'd move him to #2.  Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. 

 

 

[MizzouFan01]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4?  If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4?  If it were me, i'd move him to #2.  Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. 

 

 

Big 12’s, B10’s and NCAAs are going to be at 165. 

[Gage]

10 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

Big 12’s, B10’s and NCAAs are going to be at 165. 

I feel bad for whoever has to seed 165 b/c the top 3-4 seeds are gonna be huge. 

Looking forward to a Hamiti/Messenbrink matchup.

[flyingcement]

Tier 1: O'Toole

Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr

Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo

Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall

[Gage]

5 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Tier 1: O'Toole

Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr

Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo

Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall

That's how I would have the tier list as well. 

[Le duke]

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink.

Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. 

Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work.

[billyhoyle]

2 hours ago, Le duke said:

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink.

Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. 

Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work.

They will do nothing because they can do nothing. 

 

[Cowboy08]

rankings don't matter, Messenbrink will likely be the #2 seed at NCAA's because he avoids Carr, O'Toole and Izzy at the conference tournament.  No one in the Big 10 tournament is going to touch him

[Pish]

8 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4?  If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4?  If it were me, i'd move him to #2.  Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. 

 

 

Reminds me of Aaron Brooks first year. They had him ranked below like 4 ACC wrestlers because they were all ranked ahead to start and they all beat up on themselves. 
 

if I recall, it was Bolen, Hidlay, DePerez and someone else.  Brooks couldn’t jump ahead because he never had opportunity to wrestle them. 
 

Mitch next big test with be Caliendo and I think that match is set up for Mitch to put it on him just because they both are so offensive I just feel MM better at everything Caliendo does well. 
 

He’ll get Hamiti at BIGs. This could be interesting. 
 

If MM breezes undefeated through Bigs..he locks up 1 or 2 seed depending on if Otoole slips up

[Phantom]

6 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Tier 1: O'Toole

Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr

Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo

Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall

Having Carr in Tier 2 is the wildest thing I've seen on this board this year....congrats 

[Truzzcat]

6 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Tier 1: O'Toole

Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr

Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo

Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall

I'm about as high on mitchell as it gets but given julian has wins over carr,quiny,griffith (when he was at 165) and dean has beaten the same guys barring amine as bad or worse as well as peyton hall I dont think you can rank mitchll ahead of him just yet. Thats not me saying he wont place higher I just think given you cant rank on freestyle he does not have the historic body of work yet.

[nhs67]

What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ?

[nhs67]

6 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Having Carr in Tier 2 is the wildest thing I've seen on this board this year....congrats 

I mean... he's not wrong.

With how these gents are wrestling right now and what results they have already put in... he cannot be Tier 1, as Ramirez is Tier 3.

The law of Tiers is that you cannot jump two and win a regular match.  Something would have to be off... illness, injury, or a deckfall for someone more than one tier away to defeat someone above them.

My tiers would have been different (better ), but I commend @flyingcement on a great effort.  He did well.

[Corby]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ?

If Carr and Otoole spilt matches and he's undefeated he's the #1

[Pish]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ?

None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild

my thoughts on how it will play out..

1 seed will be undefeated or one loss B12 champ 

2 Undefeated B10 champ (swap with 3 if Hamiti or Caliendo win)

3 Ramirez

4 Loser B12 championship

 

Edited January 29 by Pish

[Corby]

13 minutes ago, Pish said:

None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild

my thoughts on how it will play out..

1 seed will be undefeated or one loss B12 champ 

2 Undefeated B10 champ (swap with 3 if Hamiti or Caliendo win)

3 Ramirez

4 Loser B12 championship

 

If Carr and Otoole split. And Mitchell runs the table and beats Hamiti and Caliendo I don't see anyway he's not the #1

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 hours ago, Le duke said:

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink.

Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. 

Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work.

I think this match will go very, very badly for Hamiti. 6+ point loss, unless he decides not to wrestle.

[nhs67]

Just now, Pish said:

None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild

I think the formula may spit Mesenbrink out, however the committee can move people up/down if required.

I could see where if Carr wins the dual and O'Toole wins the B12 a one-loss O'Toole being moved above Mesenbrink... 2x defending champ, etc.  That route could put Carr at the 4 seed as well, due to Ramirez having the same amount of losses and having lost the H2H... BUT Carr does have more matches, so even with the same losses he will get the nod on that criteria due to winning percentage.  Due to it putting them on the same side, I could see the committee NOT elevating O'Toole past Mesenbrink for the 1 seed, in that scenario.

The same the other way, too.  If Carr wins B12 but loses the dual, I think they end up as the 2/3.

A lot is going to be dependent on the final coaches ranking, I think?

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I think this match will go very, very badly for Hamiti. 6+ point loss, unless he decides not to wrestle.

I agree on the Caliendo bit as well.

Caliendo is like an aggressive version of Amine.  He could get teched.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, nhs67 said:

I agree on the Caliendo bit as well.

Caliendo is like an aggressive version of Amine.  He could get teched.

It could get ugly indeed.

[Pish]

4 minutes ago, Corby said:

If Carr and Otoole split. And Mitchell runs the table and beats Hamiti and Caliendo I don't see anyway he's not the #1

See NHS post above..this is why I think it happens (they can move guys up or down a spot) and will give 1 seed to former champ if they split

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? 

[Pish]

6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? 

My eyes tell me MM better than Haines. 
 

they probably left it up to MM on what spot he wanted to challenge for and he chose 165

 

Hell. If MM was at 157 I think it would be a “next topic” scenario. 

Edited January 29 by Pish

[billyhoyle]

20 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? 

From what I’ve seen from MM, he is more like Brooks, Starocci, Taylor, Ruth, Nolf than Haines, Mark Hall, RBY. All are great wrestlers but some of the PSU guys are just at a step above in term of dominance. 

[billyhoyle]

27 minutes ago, Pish said:

See NHS post above..this is why I think it happens (they can move guys up or down a spot) and will give 1 seed to former champ if they split

As long as they are the top 3 it’s fine with me. All three are elite wrestlers. Having him at 7 at this point doesn’t make sense to me.