billyhoyle Posted January 29 Posted January 29 I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4? If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4? If it were me, i'd move him to #2. Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. 4
MizzouFan01 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 hour ago, billyhoyle said: I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4? If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4? If it were me, i'd move him to #2. Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. Big 12’s, B10’s and NCAAs are going to be at 165. 1
Gage Posted January 29 Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said: Big 12’s, B10’s and NCAAs are going to be at 165. I feel bad for whoever has to seed 165 b/c the top 3-4 seeds are gonna be huge. Looking forward to a Hamiti/Messenbrink matchup.
flyingcement Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Tier 1: O'Toole Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall 4
Gage Posted January 29 Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, flyingcement said: Tier 1: O'Toole Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall That's how I would have the tier list as well. 1
Le duke Posted January 29 Posted January 29 It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink. Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work.
billyhoyle Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 2 hours ago, Le duke said: It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink. Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work. They will do nothing because they can do nothing.
Cowboy08 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 rankings don't matter, Messenbrink will likely be the #2 seed at NCAA's because he avoids Carr, O'Toole and Izzy at the conference tournament. No one in the Big 10 tournament is going to touch him 1
Pish Posted January 29 Posted January 29 8 hours ago, billyhoyle said: I get that there's a tradition in wrestling to not jump up the rankings unless you beat a higher-ranked wrestler, but when will a ranker out there move him to at least #4? If you look at his performance at U20 worlds (one of the best indicators of NCAA success) and his absolute dominance so far this year, does anybody doubt that he should be in the top 4? If it were me, i'd move him to #2. Maybe Carr was rusty early and beats him, but I doubt it. Reminds me of Aaron Brooks first year. They had him ranked below like 4 ACC wrestlers because they were all ranked ahead to start and they all beat up on themselves. if I recall, it was Bolen, Hidlay, DePerez and someone else. Brooks couldn’t jump ahead because he never had opportunity to wrestle them. Mitch next big test with be Caliendo and I think that match is set up for Mitch to put it on him just because they both are so offensive I just feel MM better at everything Caliendo does well. He’ll get Hamiti at BIGs. This could be interesting. If MM breezes undefeated through Bigs..he locks up 1 or 2 seed depending on if Otoole slips up
Phantom Posted January 29 Posted January 29 6 hours ago, flyingcement said: Tier 1: O'Toole Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall Having Carr in Tier 2 is the wildest thing I've seen on this board this year....congrats 4
Truzzcat Posted January 29 Posted January 29 6 hours ago, flyingcement said: Tier 1: O'Toole Tier 2: Mesenbrink and Carr Tier 3: Hamiti, Olejnik, Ramirez, Caliendo Tier 4: Amine, Fish, Hall I'm about as high on mitchell as it gets but given julian has wins over carr,quiny,griffith (when he was at 165) and dean has beaten the same guys barring amine as bad or worse as well as peyton hall I dont think you can rank mitchll ahead of him just yet. Thats not me saying he wont place higher I just think given you cant rank on freestyle he does not have the historic body of work yet.
nhs67 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ? "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
nhs67 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 6 minutes ago, Phantom said: Having Carr in Tier 2 is the wildest thing I've seen on this board this year....congrats I mean... he's not wrong. With how these gents are wrestling right now and what results they have already put in... he cannot be Tier 1, as Ramirez is Tier 3. The law of Tiers is that you cannot jump two and win a regular match. Something would have to be off... illness, injury, or a deckfall for someone more than one tier away to defeat someone above them. My tiers would have been different (better ), but I commend @flyingcement on a great effort. He did well. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
Corby Posted January 29 Posted January 29 2 minutes ago, nhs67 said: What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ? If Carr and Otoole spilt matches and he's undefeated he's the #1 2
Pish Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) 5 minutes ago, nhs67 said: What are the odds, providing Mesnebrink wins out, that he gets the 1 seed over a 1+ loss O'Toole or Carr that is also the B12 champ? None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild my thoughts on how it will play out.. 1 seed will be undefeated or one loss B12 champ 2 Undefeated B10 champ (swap with 3 if Hamiti or Caliendo win) 3 Ramirez 4 Loser B12 championship Edited January 29 by Pish 2
Corby Posted January 29 Posted January 29 13 minutes ago, Pish said: None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild my thoughts on how it will play out.. 1 seed will be undefeated or one loss B12 champ 2 Undefeated B10 champ (swap with 3 if Hamiti or Caliendo win) 3 Ramirez 4 Loser B12 championship If Carr and Otoole split. And Mitchell runs the table and beats Hamiti and Caliendo I don't see anyway he's not the #1 2
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted January 29 Posted January 29 6 hours ago, Le duke said: It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Caliendo and Hamiti can do to slow Mesenbrink. Hamiti presents a different set of threats than most guys Mesenbrink has faced, namely, he's super long and might be able to put a ride on Mesenbrink. Caliendo will likely try to go a very different route, get his hands on him and bully him. Catch any bad shots in a front head and burn time. Not sure that will work. I think this match will go very, very badly for Hamiti. 6+ point loss, unless he decides not to wrestle. 1
nhs67 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Just now, Pish said: None I think Carr or O’Toole will be 1 seed depending on who wins B12s. Loser could possibly get the 4 which would be wild I think the formula may spit Mesenbrink out, however the committee can move people up/down if required. I could see where if Carr wins the dual and O'Toole wins the B12 a one-loss O'Toole being moved above Mesenbrink... 2x defending champ, etc. That route could put Carr at the 4 seed as well, due to Ramirez having the same amount of losses and having lost the H2H... BUT Carr does have more matches, so even with the same losses he will get the nod on that criteria due to winning percentage. Due to it putting them on the same side, I could see the committee NOT elevating O'Toole past Mesenbrink for the 1 seed, in that scenario. The same the other way, too. If Carr wins B12 but loses the dual, I think they end up as the 2/3. A lot is going to be dependent on the final coaches ranking, I think? 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
nhs67 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I think this match will go very, very badly for Hamiti. 6+ point loss, unless he decides not to wrestle. I agree on the Caliendo bit as well. Caliendo is like an aggressive version of Amine. He could get teched. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Just now, nhs67 said: I agree on the Caliendo bit as well. Caliendo is like an aggressive version of Amine. He could get teched. It could get ugly indeed. 2
Pish Posted January 29 Posted January 29 4 minutes ago, Corby said: If Carr and Otoole split. And Mitchell runs the table and beats Hamiti and Caliendo I don't see anyway he's not the #1 See NHS post above..this is why I think it happens (they can move guys up or down a spot) and will give 1 seed to former champ if they split
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? 1
Pish Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? My eyes tell me MM better than Haines. they probably left it up to MM on what spot he wanted to challenge for and he chose 165 Hell. If MM was at 157 I think it would be a “next topic” scenario. Edited January 29 by Pish 2
billyhoyle Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 20 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Is there anyone else here think that Messenbrink gets the better of Levi Haines, allowing him to go 165 (despite being certified at 157)? A tough weight cut could explain why Haines (although #1) has not quite met expectations of dominance this year, and perhaps the staff thinks MM can challenge at 165 more readily than Mrs. Haines son? From what I’ve seen from MM, he is more like Brooks, Starocci, Taylor, Ruth, Nolf than Haines, Mark Hall, RBY. All are great wrestlers but some of the PSU guys are just at a step above in term of dominance. 1
billyhoyle Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 27 minutes ago, Pish said: See NHS post above..this is why I think it happens (they can move guys up or down a spot) and will give 1 seed to former champ if they split As long as they are the top 3 it’s fine with me. All three are elite wrestlers. Having him at 7 at this point doesn’t make sense to me.
Natalie Rush Canon-McMillan, Pennsylvania Class of 2025 Committed to West Liberty (Women) Projected Weight: 207
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