P4P, who is the best wrestler on the Penn State roster currently?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Meaning if you could hypothetically equalize all of their wrestlers to the same weight, who would be the best?

Obvious choices are Starocci and Brooks, but maybe Messenbrink is the best of the bunch?

Edited January 9 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[bnwtwg]

Brooks is already at senior world medal level. He is the only answer to this question and can only be revisited in April after OTT.

[Antitroll2828]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Brooks is already at senior world medal level. He is the only answer to this question and can only be revisited in April after OTT.

Yea but he also lost to Marcus Coleman last season , starocci seems like he has a Nolf level separation over the field which includes 2 ncaa champs , he absolutely destroyed Mekhi , brooks meanwhile will probably have a 2-3 point match with Hidley again 

[AgaveMaria]

Can Brooks, Starocci or Kirk take Cael? Is he like Gable was in the room?

As for who is tops on the team - give me Starocci for now.

[Threadkilla]

4 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Can Brooks, Starocci or Kirk take Cael? Is he like Gable was in the room?

As for who is tops on the team - give me Starocci for now.

Cael said he avoids eye contact with Kerk.  

[AZ_wrestling]

Depends on the style. I give Starocci a slight edge in folk but Brooks appears to be the better FS wrestler. 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Yea but he also lost to Marcus Coleman last season , starocci seems like he has a Nolf level separation over the field which includes 2 ncaa champs , he absolutely destroyed Mekhi , brooks meanwhile will probably have a 2-3 point match with Hidley again 

This.  The  answer is Starocci

[peanut]

Starocci hasn't lost since his freshman year, and he's been slightly more dominant than Brooks (I believe), so he probably has the edge.

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

This.  The  answer is Starocci

The main thing with Brooks vs starocci to me that starocci historically has been less dominant, but there were always rumors hes been hurt half his career, which I tend to ignore because they're all hurt, but so far this year it seems like this might be the healthy version.

Brooks argument would be that he's beaten valencia, where as I think staroccis best win is lewis. He beat nolf but that doesn't count because it was at 79 kilos.

[Hammerlock3]

13 minutes ago, peanut said:

Starocci hasn't lost since his freshman year, and he's been slightly more dominant than Brooks (I believe), so he probably has the edge.

inspired by you I looked it up. Brooks bonus % is 60, starocci is 58, not really a meaningful distinction.

[Eagle26]

Brooks is already at senior world medal level. He is the only answer to this question and can only be revisited in April after OTT.

This has been discussed before, but I don’t really think that’s a fair distinction because Starrocci is a true tweener. In folk style, they are about as close as Nolf and Nickal were (and I still believe those two should’ve split the hodge).

[Wrestleknownothing]

Do I have to choose all of the pounds from one wrestler?

[steamboat_charlie]

15 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

brooks meanwhile will probably have a 2-3 point match with Hidley again 

You say that like it's not impressive. 

Hidlay is an absolute beast, better than either of the other champs at 174. He's 16-0 with a 90% bonus rate.  He won Bill Farrell a couple months ago beating guys like Dieringer and Kentchadze.  

And Brooks is better.    

[peanut]

14 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

inspired by you I looked it up. Brooks bonus % is 60, starocci is 58, not really a meaningful distinction.

Yeah, they're super close.

Some interesting stats though, when you remove Starocci's RS year results and Brooks's COVID year results:

• Starocci: 65-2; '21 bonus: 25%; '22 bonus: 59.09%; '23 bonus 66.67%
• Brooks: 57-2; '21 bonus: 50%; '22 bonus: 63.64%; '23 bonus 66.67%

Under these parameters, Starocci has a slightly better win percentage, and Brooks was more dominant out of the gate -- but Starocci quickly caught up.

[Antitroll2828]

53 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

You say that like it's not impressive. 

Hidlay is an absolute beast, better than either of the other champs at 174. He's 16-0 with a 90% bonus rate.  He won Bill Farrell a couple months ago beating guys like Dieringer and Kentchadze.  

And Brooks is better.    

Hidley is not a better folkstyle wrestler then Shane Griffith at all, and id put him about on the level of Mekhi , Hidley lost to Kaleb Romero last season . His best career win is over Keckeisen who he’s 1-2 against and has a win over Nino at 184 4 years ago , Hidley is the same guy he was when he got to college , he has 1 offensive attack and if he’s wrestling someone better than him he immediately backs straight up to out of bounds line off the whistle and just plays the line but never gets called for stalling 

[steamboat_charlie]

Just now, Antitroll2828 said:

Hidley is not a better folkstyle wrestler then Shane Griffith at all

Two years ago, sure.  In 2024 Hidlay is the better wrestler, any style.  

[Antitroll2828]

22 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

Two years ago, sure.  In 2024 Hidlay is the better wrestler, any style.  

I mean that’s your opinion , but can compare their careers , you can look at each hit list and check out the weight classes they’ve competed in all those things are going to lean Griffith in Folkstyle , it’s wild to say Hidley is now the better wrestler when he’s literally the same guy doing the same moves from 4 years ago 

[steamboat_charlie]

6 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I mean that’s your opinion , but can compare their careers , you can look at each hit list and check out the weight classes they’ve competed in all those things are going to lean Griffith in Folkstyle , it’s wild to say Hidley is now the better wrestler when he’s literally the same guy doing the same moves from 4 years ago 

Yes, it is my opinion.  That's usually the point of places like this... to express one's opinion.   If you want to say Griffith has had the better career, I'm not going to argue with you, but it's not like it's hugely lopsided.  

Giffith - 103-14 career - NQ, 1, 2, 5
Hidlay - 111-13 career - NQ, 2, 5, 4

Griffith caught lightning in a bottle and won his title as an 8 seed.  It was awesome.  That's really the differentiator.  He hasn't improved since 2022.  

If you've watched both guys compete this season and come to the determination that Griffith is better, then there's really nothing I can say to sway you.  We can just watch the season unfold and see how they both perform, and circle back at the end of the year.  

[Gus]

15 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I mean that’s your opinion , but can compare their careers , you can look at each hit list and check out the weight classes they’ve competed in all those things are going to lean Griffith in Folkstyle , it’s wild to say Hidley is now the better wrestler when he’s literally the same guy doing the same moves from 4 years ago 

I am going to disagree on this. I think Hidlay is the better wrestler at this point in time. You say that Hidlay has not gotten better (I disagree, he is a wrecking ball), but has Griffith? He was a champ in 2021 and his signature win was over Marinelli who was injured and never finished higher than 5th. He had Jake Wentzel in the finals who failed to AA the next year. He then took 2nd and 5th dropping some head scratching matches along the way. 

[Elevator]

I would bet on Kerk to beat anyone as he is very big and very strong.  Maybe AB would have a shot, but lean Kerk.   

[1032004]

Has Trent had a better career than Hayden?   I’d say probably about the same as long as Trent finishes top 3 this year.   

Mekhi split with Hayden in 2022.

So I’d say Mekhi/Trent are pretty comparable.  So the fact that Brooks has lost twice in the last 2 seasons gives this topic to Starocci IMO.

[nhs67]

Hasn't this match, more or less, happened?

They have competed in the same weight class at least once during their collegiate careers, albeit in Freestyle.

At that tournament Brooks had better results.

Sta(l)rocci has had multiple losses within the last year at a weaker weight in 79 KG in Freestyle as well, whereas Brooks has cemented himself as the #2 86 KG guy in the country, possibly the entire world.

If you are going to force Brooks to go down to 174lbs, then maybe Sta(l)rocci beats him at Folkstyle.

If they meet in the middle and wrestle at 184lbs then Brooks is winning this match.

[Antitroll2828]

49 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Hasn't this match, more or less, happened?

They have competed in the same weight class at least once during their collegiate careers, albeit in Freestyle.

At that tournament Brooks had better results.

Sta(l)rocci has had multiple losses within the last year at a weaker weight in 79 KG in Freestyle as well, whereas Brooks has cemented himself as the #2 86 KG guy in the country, possibly the entire world.

If you are going to force Brooks to go down to 174lbs, then maybe Sta(l)rocci beats him at Folkstyle.

If they meet in the middle and wrestle at 184lbs then Brooks is winning this match.

Starocci was visibly hurt last year wrestling freestyle 

[Ragu]

This is an eye test question why are people bringing numbers in. Answer is Brooks

[TNwrestling]

isnt the coaching staff still technically the roster? if so im saying cael at 44 clears.