Stephen A. On New TX Bill

[Husker_Du]

Thoughts on this?

 

[Plasmodium]

I recall a law like this in AZ.  It was overturned, although I don't remember whether it was because of the inherent bias in enforcement or that a state doesn't have the standing to enforce such a law.  I suspect this law might be an elaborate troll.

[ionel]

Arresting people for doing illegal things just seems wrong.  Law enforcement enforcing the law, what will be next?   

[Offthemat]

If I was an illegal I’d want to get out of Texas.  

[Plasmodium]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:01 AM, ionel said:

Arresting people for doing illegal things just seems wrong.  Law enforcement enforcing the law, what will be next?   

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Objectively?  Crops rotting in the fields or not getting planted in the first place.  Construction coming to a halt.  Restaurants shutting down everywhere.

[Le duke]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:28 AM, Offthemat said:

If I was an illegal I’d want to get out of Texas.  

I think Texas will rethink this when their economy crumbles.


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[WrestlingRasta]

Would have to look a lot more into it, but if it’s true what he says about “suspected”…..don’t like that part at all.
 

If there is evidence and they are illegal…different story. 

[Le duke]

  On 12/20/2023 at 12:08 PM, WrestlingRasta said:

Would have to look a lot more into it, but if it’s true what he says about “suspected”…..don’t like that part at all.
 

If there is evidence and they are illegal…different story. 

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If you can detain someone based on the color of their skin and suspected national origin, yeah, that's pretty problematic.

 I mean, you're literally conducting a search and seizure with no specific, actual crime in mind, and hoping to arrive at a crime after the fact. That's insane. Something something 4th Amendment.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Le duke

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 12/20/2023 at 2:59 PM, Le duke said:

If you can detain someone based on the color of their skin and suspected national origin, yeah, that's pretty problematic.

 I mean, you're literally conducting a search and seizure with no specific, actual crime in mind, and hoping to arrive at a crime after the fact. That's insane. Something something 4th Amendment.

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Yeah, don't like the 'suspected' part about it.

[Plasmodium]

I read a bit about this law(Texas SB4).  Some of it it looney tunes.  For example, after you are convicted and serve your sentence you are taken to a Mexican port of entry for deportation.  Even if you aren't Mexican. I think it is a gigantic troll and they're banking on it being overturned.

 

[ionel]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:38 AM, Plasmodium said:

Objectively?  Crops rotting in the fields or not getting planted in the first place.  Construction coming to a halt.  Restaurants shutting down everywhere.

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Have you ever been on a farm or worked construction, am assuming you've eaten at a restaurant?  Think you meant you might have to mow your lawn yourself and you might not get your house re-roofed as soon as you want.  These straight over the border illegal immigrants aren't taking over farm machinery operations, the high tech stuff today is more complicated than flying airplane and you've gotta be able to communicate for both.  Construction, you really think we are building skyscrapers and houses with folks who just came over the border and can't communicate with the foreman?  Re-roofing shingles yeah maybe after they've been trained.  Last roof job I went with local company a guy who I knew thru wrestling coaching, but during the job there was one guy on sight who could speak enough English to know to make the call to the guy who could speak English.  Do we need 10k new roofers per day, maybe?

[ionel]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:06 PM, Plasmodium said:

I read a bit about this law(Texas SB4).  Some of it it looney tunes.  For example, after you are convicted and serve your sentence you are taken to a Mexican port of entry for deportation.  Even if you aren't Mexican. I think it is a gigantic troll and they're banking on it being overturned.

 

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how'd they get into Mexico the first time?

[Plasmodium]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:35 PM, ionel said:

how'd they get into Mexico the first time?

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IDK.  Overstayed their visa?  Walked from Venezuela?  Broke  Mexican law?   Didn't cross from Mexico - A Norwegian who went from Quebec to Maine to Mexico, with a stopover on Martha's Vineyard?

[Plasmodium]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:29 PM, ionel said:

Have you ever been on a farm or worked construction, am assuming you've eaten at a restaurant?  Think you meant you might have to mow your lawn yourself and you might not get your house re-roofed as soon as you want.  These straight over the border illegal immigrants aren't taking over farm machinery operations, the high tech stuff today is more complicated than flying airplane and you've gotta be able to communicate for both.  Construction, you really think we are building skyscrapers and houses with folks who just came over the border and can't communicate with the foreman?  Re-roofing shingles yeah maybe after they've been trained.  Last roof job I went with local company a guy who I knew thru wrestling coaching, but during the job there was one guy on sight who could speak enough English to know to make the call to the guy who could speak English.  Do we need 10k new roofers per day, maybe?

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They don't come over 10k/day to mow lawns and put on roofs in December.  The foremen building houses and pouring concrete are bilingual, as are lots of construction workers independent of documentation.   Farm equipment is high tech, but operation is not. Taking away the employers is another way to stem the flow, but there is a lot of nuance there.

[ionel]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:51 PM, Plasmodium said:

 Farm equipment is high tech, but operation is not. 

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so you haven't been on a farm.  

[jross]

  On 12/20/2023 at 2:07 AM, Husker_Du said:

Thoughts on this?  Stephen A Smith says...

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I agree with C.M.

 

[Plasmodium]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:54 PM, ionel said:

so you haven't been on a farm.  

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We've had this Perkins County discussion. 

[Le duke]

  On 12/20/2023 at 3:54 PM, ionel said:

so you haven't been on a farm.  

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I have to ask you:

Have you actually seen how produce is harvested? 

Because I've worked and lived in multiple areas with significant undocumented immigrant populations. It's all manual labor. There aren't any machines doing that work. It's men and women working in orchards picking your apples and cherries, groves picking your oranges, fields picking your lettuce. 

[ionel]

  On 12/20/2023 at 7:17 PM, Le duke said:

I have to ask you:

Have you actually seen how produce is harvested? 

Because I've worked and lived in multiple areas with significant undocumented immigrant populations. It's all manual labor. There aren't any machines doing that work. It's men and women working in orchards picking your apples and cherries, groves picking your oranges, fields picking your lettuce. 

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I have actually harvested agricultural products.  Most folks eat more than lettuce. 

[VakAttack]

Lots of undocumented folks here in central Florida in harvesting, mostly in peanut farms and orange groves.  I don't have anything to add on the TX law, it seems repugnant and openly racist, and also likely violates federal law, since immigration is under federal purview.

[Bigbrog]

Hard to understand some of the "logic" on here about immigration.  To say "who is going to work the farms?" if we fix our broken immigration system is total speculation and...well...stupid.  If we fix what is broken why would it mean that people would stop coming into the US???  And how is fixing the broken system and asking that our boarders be secure "racist"??  

Mind boggling that a thing like a secure boarder has become a divisive thing and get's labeled "racist".  I think people forget that presidents on both sides of the isle have called for a more secure boarder.  When president Obama said it did people call it racist??