Upset Thread

[nhs67]

  On 12/15/2024 at 11:21 PM, flyingcement said:

we need a 220 lb weight class... we can move the middle weights around to match freestyle weights basically.

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Or we could just do the international weights - or close to them, just transposed to poundage rather than kilos(my suggested in parenthesis for sanity purposes).

125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (166)
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

[bnwtwg]

  On 12/16/2024 at 2:43 PM, nhs67 said:

Or we could just do the international weights - or close to them, just transposed to poundage rather than kilos(my suggested in parenthesis for sanity purposes).

125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (166)
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

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Stop making sense. Why would we want to increase numbers when our sport is at a critical point domestically?!

[gromit]

  On 12/16/2024 at 2:43 PM, nhs67 said:

Or we could just do the international weights - or close to them, just transposed to poundage rather than kilos(my suggested in parenthesis for sanity purposes).

125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (165)
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

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Great suggestion! FIFY at the fifth weight class....and I agree with bntwg, this makes WAY too much sense.

Edited December 16, 2024 by gromit

[1032004]

  On 12/16/2024 at 4:27 PM, bnwtwg said:

Stop making sense. Why would we want to increase numbers when our sport is at a critical point domestically?!

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That wouldn’t increase numbers.    You’re removing a middleweight where there are more participants and adding an upperweight where there are less participants.  And that’s true even for 220’s in high school.

[Winners Circle]

  On 12/16/2024 at 2:43 PM, nhs67 said:

Or we could just do the international weights - or close to them, just transposed to poundage rather than kilos(my suggested in parenthesis for sanity purposes).

125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (166)
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

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Looks like a lot of 'bathroom/concessions' weights to me.

[wrestlingfan22]

  On 12/16/2024 at 2:43 PM, nhs67 said:

Or we could just do the international weights - or close to them, just transposed to poundage rather than kilos(my suggested in parenthesis for sanity purposes).

125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (166)
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

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205, 220 and 285 is overkill. Lots of D1 programs only have 1-2 guys per weight at 197 and 285. Adding another weight class in between will help a few 97kg guys but most programs will struggle to cover all those weights. Also losing 149 would take away arguably the most exciting weight and split it between 145 and 155. 

[nhs67]

  On 12/16/2024 at 5:57 PM, gromit said:

Great suggestion! FIFY at the fifth weight class....and I agree with bntwg, this makes WAY too much sense.

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Spanky.  I did mean 165lbs, FWIW.

[bnwtwg]

  On 12/16/2024 at 6:34 PM, wrestlingfan22 said:

205, 220 and 285 is overkill. Lots of D1 programs only have 1-2 guys per weight at 197 and 285. Adding another weight class in between will help a few 97kg guys but most programs will struggle to cover all those weights. Also losing 149 would take away arguably the most exciting weight and split it between 145 and 155. 

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Lots of D1 programs struggle to find career 125s because it's primarily an underclass weight but I don't see anyone trying to get rid of it.

[nhs67]

  On 12/16/2024 at 6:34 PM, wrestlingfan22 said:

205, 220 and 285 is overkill. Lots of D1 programs only have 1-2 guys per weight at 197 and 285. Adding another weight class in between will help a few 97kg guys but most programs will struggle to cover all those weights. Also losing 149 would take away arguably the most exciting weight and split it between 145 and 155. 

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If we're going to act like we're above UWW (and USAW) and ignore the weight classes that they already have, then we will forever struggle to simply just maintain.

High school can do the same to get to 14 weight classes:
45 KG -> 99.2lbs (100)
+6
48 KG -> 105.8lbs (106)
+6
51 KG -> 112.4lbs (112)
+6
55 KG -> 121.25lbs (118)
+7
125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
+10
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
+10
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
+10
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
+10
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (165)
+10
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
+15
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
+15
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
+15
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
+65
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

This puts us very close to the weight c lasses for the highest level of wrestling on the planet.

[wrestlingfan22]

  On 12/16/2024 at 7:18 PM, nhs67 said:

If we're going to act like we're above UWW (and USAW) and ignore the weight classes that they already have, then we will forever struggle to simply just maintain.

High school can do the same to get to 14 weight classes:
45 KG -> 99.2lbs (100)
+6
48 KG -> 105.8lbs (106)
+6
51 KG -> 112.4lbs (112)
+6
55 KG -> 121.25lbs (118)
+7
125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
+10
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
+10
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
+10
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
+10
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (165)
+10
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
+15
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
+15
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
+15
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
+65
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

This puts us very close to the weight c lasses for the highest level of wrestling on the planet.

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The issue is a domestic folkstyle season is far longer than freestyle competition. Guys weigh in more times during NCAA dual season then they do for an entire year of freestyle competition. Guys will still compete a weight class above their ideal freestyle weight to avoid having to hold it for the entire season

[wrestlingfan22]

  On 12/16/2024 at 7:13 PM, bnwtwg said:

Lots of D1 programs struggle to find career 125s because it's primarily an underclass weight but I don't see anyone trying to get rid of it.

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I wouldn't say get rid of 125(I would move it up when/if UWW does). But if someone suggested a 120lb weight class I would think that is ridiculous. Adding more weight classes to either end of the spectrum doesn't do much. 

[Winners Circle]

  On 12/16/2024 at 7:18 PM, nhs67 said:

If we're going to act like we're above UWW (and USAW) and ignore the weight classes that they already have, then we will forever struggle to simply just maintain.

High school can do the same to get to 14 weight classes:
45 KG -> 99.2lbs (100)
+6
48 KG -> 105.8lbs (106)
+6
51 KG -> 112.4lbs (112)
+6
55 KG -> 121.25lbs (118)
+7
125 -> 57 KG = 125.6lbs (125)
+10
133 -> 61 KG = 134.5lbs (135)
+10
141 -> 65 KG = 143.3lbs (145)
+10
149 -> 70 KG = 154.3lbs (155)
+10
157 -> 74 KG = 163.4lbs (165)
+10
165 -> 79 KG = 174.2lbs (175)
+15
174 -> 86 KG = 189.6lbs (190)
+15
184 -> 92 KG = 202.8lbs (205)
+15
197 -> 97 KG = 213.8lbs (220)
+65
285 -> 125 KG = 275.6lbs (285)

This puts us very close to the weight c lasses for the highest level of wrestling on the planet.

Expand  

From a fan standpoint, NCAA wrestling has far more fans than UWW and USAW. I know there's a lot of variables there, but that is simply a fact. I'm a diehard wrestling fan (all styles), just like most of us on this forum, I've been to 8 straight NCAAs, never been to a single US Open/World Team Trials/Final X/World Championships/etc. I'm not saying the weight classes is the reason for this, obviously. But I'm not sure being like UWW or USAW would be a good thing for NCAA wrestling.

[MPhillips]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:13 PM, Winners Circle said:

NCAA wrestling has far more fans than UWW and USAW.

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College wrestling has more fans than FS/GR. Is this what you're claiming? Because that is undeniably incorrect, wrong, ridiculous and egregious...

[ionel]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:41 PM, MPhillips said:

... undeniably incorrect, wrong, ridiculous and egregious...

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... tell us how you really feel MP 

[MPhillips]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:46 PM, ionel said:

... tell us how you really feel MP 

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I never tell anyone how I really feel.

Can you imagine there is a person who believes that college wrestling is more popular than the international styles...

[Gus]

  On 12/16/2024 at 9:41 PM, MPhillips said:

College wrestling has more fans than FS/GR. Is this what you're claiming? Because that is undeniably incorrect, wrong, ridiculous and egregious...

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I think he is saying that college wrestling has more USA domestic wrestling fans than FS/GR. 

[nhs67]

  On 12/16/2024 at 10:02 PM, Gus said:

I think he is saying that college wrestling has more USA domestic wrestling fans than FS/GR. 

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Wouldn't that be true for all feeder systems?

There are more kids playing HS football than college.

Just like there are more kids wrestling in HS and at high school events than collegiately...

We will never have as many senior level athletes as we do college level athletes.  That means less first tier supporters (moms/dads/significant others/etc).

[BruceyB]

  On 12/16/2024 at 7:13 PM, bnwtwg said:

Lots of D1 programs struggle to find career 125s because it's primarily an underclass weight but I don't see anyone trying to get rid of it.

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A lot of guys change weight classes over their 5 years of college regardless of weight class. But when it comes to weight distribution, just like we no longer have a 118 weight class in college because the weight doesn't have enough athletes to justify it, adding a weight for few competitors that can't make 197 but aren't big enough to compete at 285 doesn't make sense either. The number of high level wrestlers in this situation is just not high enough to make an entire weight for those individuals. This is especially true if the cost is removing a middle weight class where the majority of the athletes in our sport compete.

[BruceyB]

  On 12/17/2024 at 12:03 AM, nhs67 said:

Wouldn't that be true for all feeder systems?

There are more kids playing HS football than college.

Just like there are more kids wrestling in HS and at high school events than collegiately...

We will never have as many senior level athletes as we do college level athletes.  That means less first tier supporters (moms/dads/significant others/etc).

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Wrestling fans and people involved in wrestling, while there is some overlap, are largely two different groups entirely. Fans are watching and following the sport (viewing numbers, ticket sales, merch sales, subscribers to whatever platform is streaming the event they want to watch), while your "first tier supporters" often watch their athlete and that team compete without being an overall fan of the sport. That is why professional baseball is bigger than tee-ball despites more kids playing tee ball than in the MLB. 

College is king in wrestling because regardless of who is wearing the singlet, most fans have a team (or teams) they cheer for, and teams they like to root against. The team aspect, and the following of the "season" is just more conducive to viewers and followers.

[nhs67]

  On 12/17/2024 at 12:56 AM, BruceyB said:

A lot of guys change weight classes over their 5 years of college regardless of weight class. But when it comes to weight distribution, just like we no longer have a 118 weight class in college because the weight doesn't have enough athletes to justify it, adding a weight for few competitors that can't make 197 but aren't big enough to compete at 285 doesn't make sense either. The number of high level wrestlers in this situation is just not high enough to make an entire weight for those individuals. This is especially true if the cost is removing a middle weight class where the majority of the athletes in our sport compete.

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There not being enough 118lbers is not the reason there is no 118lb weight class.

Every weight class was increase by 7 pounds (118->125, 126->133, 134->141, etc) due to people actually killing themselves.

[nhs67]

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:06 AM, BruceyB said:

Wrestling fans and people involved in wrestling, while there is some overlap, are largely two different groups entirely. Fans are watching and following the sport (viewing numbers, ticket sales, merch sales, subscribers to whatever platform is streaming the event they want to watch), while your "first tier supporters" often watch their athlete and that team compete without being an overall fan of the sport. That is why professional baseball is bigger than tee-ball despites more kids playing tee ball than in the MLB. 

College is king in wrestling because regardless of who is wearing the singlet, most fans have a team (or teams) they cheer for, and teams they like to root against. The team aspect, and the following of the "season" is just more conducive to viewers and followers.

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College isn't even king in the US.  NCAA wrestling is nowhere near the most popular version of wrestling, even in the states.  When has NCAA wrestling had THOUSANDS of wrestlers (and their fans) break a city because of too many competitors (and their fans/supporters) show up?

When it comes to worldwide, there just isn't a conversation to be had.

[BruceyB]

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:09 AM, nhs67 said:

College isn't even king in the US.  NCAA wrestling is nowhere near the most popular version of wrestling, even in the states.  When has NCAA wrestling had THOUSANDS of wrestlers (and their fans) break a city because of too many competitors (and their fans/supporters) show up?

When it comes to worldwide, there just isn't a conversation to be had.

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Show me any event in the sport of wrestling that has 10% of the viewership of the NCAA championships in the US. College is king of viewers and fans.

 

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:06 AM, nhs67 said:

There not being enough 118lbers is not the reason there is no 118lb weight class.

Every weight class was increase by 7 pounds (118->125, 126->133, 134->141, etc) due to people actually killing themselves.

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They got rid of the lowest weight and slightly adjusted the other weights to compensate. Saying they moved all of the weights up 7 pounds makes no sense. You could equally argue that they actually lowered 126 to 125, and 134 to 133, etc as a response to removing the lowest weight. 118 wasn't a weight that many grown men could make without cutting a severe amount of weight (not enough healthy 118s).

[flyingcement]

Upset Alert: Blake Boarman major decision over Nassir Bailey

[BruceyB]

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:29 AM, flyingcement said:

Upset Alert: Blake Boarman major decision over Nassir Bailey

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Is there a video? Any idea how the match played out?

[flyingcement]

  On 12/17/2024 at 1:37 AM, BruceyB said:

Is there a video? Any idea how the match played out?

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I almost paid the six bucks on Little Rock Sports Network to watch it but ended up not doing it.  Hopefully we have some video by morning.