Jim Jordan does not like hard legislating

[Offthemat]

Who is this inmate you speak of, one of your students, family?

[VakAttack]

  On 10/18/2023 at 5:48 AM, flyingcement said:

I think it's been a very long time since the idea of balanced budgets could be associated with either Republicans or Democrats.  Unfortunately both parties have decided that in order to win votes, you must over-promise and by the time we as citizens have to face the music, they as politicians have moved on to a different role and don't have to be accountable.  Sad to say the Tea Party that rose to fringe power in the last couple decades actually had a point about fiscal responsibility, but while members of their broader party remained relevant, that particularly important message was lost. 

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I agree, something I figured out many years ago.  That's when I decided I preferred that the money be spent on social services and the like versus, like, criminalizing abortion or accusing the opposing party of being blood-drinking child predators.

[Offthemat]

  On 10/18/2023 at 2:14 AM, WrestlingRasta said:

The whole RINO brainwash, created and perpetuated by the original RINO….got it.

I’m out for the evening, suddenly I have the urge to go grill a leg of lamb…

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Yes, RINOs.  Big spending republicans, led by lobbyists.  Part of the uni-party.  Whatever you want to call them.  Most will leave congress many times more wealthy than they entered.  In the meantime, service on our debt is greater than our defense budget. 

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:09 PM, Offthemat said:

Yes, RINOs.  Big spending republicans, led by lobbyists.  Part of the uni-party.  Whatever you want to call them.  Most will leave congress many times more wealthy than they entered.  In the meantime, service on our debt is greater than our defense budget. 

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and that behavior is strictly limited to republicans Trump doesn’t like

For example Jordan won’t leave congress anymore wealthy than when he entered right? All the while not passing any legislation at all. 

Im trying to give you credit for being too smart to be this much of a lamb. 
 

Edited October 18, 2023 by WrestlingRasta

[Plasmodium]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:09 PM, Offthemat said:

Yes, RINOs.  Big spending republicans, led by lobbyists.  Part of the uni-party.  Whatever you want to call them.  Most will leave congress many times more wealthy than they entered.  In the meantime, service on our debt is greater than our defense budget. 

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The debt can and may be the death of us.  We need cuts and taxes.

[Offthemat]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:15 PM, WrestlingRasta said:

and that behavior is strictly limited to republicans Trump doesn’t like

For example Jordan won’t leave congress anymore wealthy than when he entered right? All the while not passing any legislation at all. 

Im trying to give you credit for being too smart to be this much of a lamb. 
 

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Maybe I haven’t been clear.  I’m not saying anything about Trump or whom he doesn’t like.  I’m saying democrats vote in lockstep while Republicans are more independent.  So many in Congress have lost the perspective that it’s not their money they’re spending, it used to be our money they were spending, but the money they’re spending now doesn’t exist, except on paper; worthless paper. 
 

As for Jordans legislation, a lot of work, discussion, negotiation goes into creating some bills, done in committees.  Reagan had a saying, something to the effect of how much could be accomplished when you didn’t care who got the credit. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Offthemat

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:43 PM, Offthemat said:

Maybe I haven’t been clear.  I’m not saying anything about Trump or whom he doesn’t like.  I’m saying democrats vote in lockstep while Republicans are more independent.  So many in Congress have lost the perspective that it’s not their money they’re spending, it used to be our money they were spending, but the money they’re spending now doesn’t exist, except on paper; worthless paper. 
 

As for Jordans legislation, a lot of work, discussion, negotiation goes into creating some bills, done in committees.  Reagan had a saying, something to the effect of how much could be accomplished when you didn’t care who got the credit. 

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Trust me, I'm reading you clear as the Jamaican coastline....  Especially when you moved right off the 'wealthier than when they came in' line real quick in regards to Jordan.

Enjoy the vote.

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:52 AM, Husker_Du said:

how is it paranoia when that's precisely what the Dems have been doing/attempting? 

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This will be exhausting and probably a waste of time but...

First, the Speaker does not green light anything. Especially if the Speaker is in the minority. It is such an extreme statement that it is downright stupid. 

Second, this whole weaponized law enforcement story line is such a load of crap, and is usually reserved for law breakers. "The problem is not that I broke the law, the problem is that the justice system has been weaponized against me. As proof I offer the fact that I am being indicted. Full stop. (Let's not talk about whether I broke the law)." It is the shiny object used to distract.

Bleeding resources, people and funds to China, Russia, Mexico and Iran? Wow, what a mish-mash of weird crap this one is. Hmmmm, funds to China? OK, stop buying iphones and other things made in China. Haha. Never gonna happen. Ditto for resources. What people are we losing to China? What people are we losing to Russia? What people are we losing to Mexico? Hell, all I hear on the board is complaints about people coming from Mexico. Losing people to Mexico is a pretty novel and very bonkers complaint form a very bonkers poster. And what people are we losing to Iran? In order the answers are none, none, negative none, and none.

Allow, enact, and participate in deviancy of our children is some serious QAnon lunacy. But those kind of scare tactics work well on a guy like @Offthemat. 

The whole budget explode thing is hyperbole in the extreme. There was an explosion of spending in 2020 and 2021 under Trump due to pandemic free money give aways. You can argue that this was an unsuccessful attempt to buy votes. There is no doubt that government spending needs to be reigned in and the Democrats have done nowhere near enough to do so. The resulting explosion in money supply created an explosion in inflation that we are still dealing with today through higher interest rates aimed at taming it. This is a bi-partisan issue that requires a bi-partisan solution. The reality is that brinksmanship will not achieve the desired result. It has been attempted repeatedly, and it has not worked.

[WrestlingRasta]

You lose them at ‘bi-partisan’. Most in that corner of conservatism are not capable. They’re too busy telling us how to make American great again….

[Ban Basketball]

  On 10/18/2023 at 2:12 PM, Offthemat said:

Who is this inmate you speak of, one of your students, family?

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Well no,  but you know who Inmate # PO135809 is.

I have had a few ex-cons in my classes over the years,  but it's a small number. 

Family? I've had two nephews do prison stints,  but both have since been released but are indeed ex-cons.

[Wrestleknownothing]

Let's talk about the deficit and whether it is a bi-partisan issue, a Democrat issue, or a Republican issue.

Trigger warning: @Offthemat this will require some nuance. I know that is not your safe place.

• Only 4 of the last 14 Presidents have run a surplus in a given year. Harry Truman (D) did it in 4 of 8 years. Dwight Eisenhower (R) did it in 3 of 8 years. Lyndon Johnson (D) did it in 2 of 6 years. Bill Clinton (D) did it in 4 of 8 years.
• Only Harry Truman (D) and Bill Clinton (D) have run a net surplus over the entire term of their presidency. Harry Truman did it by cutting taxes and slashing spending. Bill Clinton did it by raising taxes and cutting spending.
• Our last two Presidents, Donald Trump (R) and Joe Biden (D) have run the largest deficits in recent history.

• No one can look at that first chart and argue that our current level of federal spending is appropriate. It really needs to be under 18% of GDP. It is currently at 24.5% of GDP. That is a substantial gap.
• Taxes at 18.9% of GDP are high enough to balance a budget and do not need to go any higher.
• There are no clean hands here, but it is true that the Republicans have historically run larger deficits than Democrats. Caveat: my data does not include Roosevelt's New Deal, but that only increases the Democrat deficit to -3.7% of GDP.

 

• And removing both Trump and Biden only closes the gap (-3.0% for D, -3.5% for R). 

The issue is bi-partisan. They are all over-spending my money.

Aligning yourself so hard right makes you blind to how Republicans do it. Aligning yourself so hard left blinds you blind to how Democrats do it.

But make no mistake, they both do it.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[Offthemat]

  On 10/18/2023 at 3:50 PM, WrestlingRasta said:

Trust me, I'm reading you clear as the Jamaican coastline....  Especially when you moved right off the 'wealthier than when they came in' line real quick in regards to Jordan.

Enjoy the vote.

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I don’t believe you.  I didn’t move off of anything.  I don’t know Jordan’s financial status but I wouldn’t be surprised to find he’d benefited from his position, probably not as much as nancy polosi, though. 

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 10/18/2023 at 6:15 PM, Offthemat said:

I don’t believe you.  I didn’t move off of anything.  I don’t know Jordan’s financial status but I wouldn’t be surprised to find he’d benefited from his position, probably not as much as nancy polosi, though. 

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I will inform you when my goal is to convince you something about me, so you have the heads up.

[ionel]

50 more

[ionel]

  On 10/18/2023 at 5:36 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Let's talk about the deficit and whether it is a bi-partisan issue, a Democrat issue, or a Republican issue.

Trigger warning: @Offthemat this will require some nuance. I know that is not your safe place.

• Only 4 of the last 14 Presidents have run a surplus in a given year. Harry Truman (D) did it in 4 of 8 years. Dwight Eisenhower (R) did it in 3 of 8 years. Lyndon Johnson (D) did it in 2 of 6 years. Bill Clinton (D) did it in 4 of 8 years.
• Only Harry Truman (D) and Bill Clinton (D) have run a net surplus over the entire term of their presidency. Harry Truman did it by cutting taxes and slashing spending. Bill Clinton did it by raising taxes and cutting spending.
• Our last two Presidents, Donald Trump (R) and Joe Biden (D) have run the largest deficits in recent history.

• No one can look at that first chart and argue that our current level of federal spending is appropriate. It really needs to be under 18% of GDP. It is currently at 24.5% of GDP. That is a substantial gap.
• Taxes at 18.9% of GDP are high enough to balance a budget and do not need to go any higher.
• There are no clean hands here, but it is true that the Republicans have historically run larger deficits than Democrats. Caveat: my data does not include Roosevelt's New Deal, but that only increases the Democrat deficit to -3.7% of GDP.

 

• And removing both Trump and Biden only closes the gap (-3.0% for D, -3.5% for R). 

The issue is bi-partisan. They are all over-spending my money.

Aligning yourself so hard right makes you blind to how Republicans do it. Aligning yourself so hard left blinds you blind to how Democrats do it.

But make no mistake, they both do it.

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Be sure and include brackets for the dot com paper wealth era the market crashes etc.

[Plasmodium]

  On 10/18/2023 at 6:27 PM, ionel said:

Be sure and include brackets for the dot com paper wealth era the market crashes etc.

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That can't be your takeaway.

At any rate, when your VP invents the Internet, you get to take your bows!

[Offthemat]

I think spending is more congress’ doing than the president.  For Trump, his position on everything was diminished by the legislators who were sucked in by the ‘collusion’ propaganda during the first two years, and dims controlled congress the last two years.  When George W. was president, he just set back and let congress do what they wanted.  
I don’t know where any of you fellas got the idea that I blame only dims for spending too much.  While it is true that they are the biggest spenders, they haven’t done it without help.  

[mspart]

This is the way I see it.

Ds - They want to spend big so they can get reelected to spend more.  

Rs - They want the debt to be reduced but when they look around, they see that they have to spend more to get reelected.

It is really the electorate that has been driving the free lunch thing and the elected officials oblige.  When they don't, they get voted out.   

mspart

[Offthemat]

“

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. Sell not liberty to purchase power.

                                                                                          Ben Franklin 

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 10/18/2023 at 7:51 PM, mspart said:

It is really the electorate that has been driving the free lunch thing and the elected officials oblige.  When they don't, they get voted out.   

mspart

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Completely and totally in agreement here.   Comes down to we the people. (And we could say this in each and every thread). 

[WrestlingRasta]

  On 10/18/2023 at 7:59 PM, Offthemat said:

“

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. Sell not liberty to purchase power.

                                                                                          Ben Franklin 

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I have to play on both ends and respect an excellent post. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by WrestlingRasta

[VakAttack]

  On 10/18/2023 at 7:59 PM, Offthemat said:

“

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. Sell not liberty to purchase power.

                                                                                          Ben Franklin 

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This is, of course, not a thing that can actually be found anywhere in Ben Franklin's work, writings, or speeches.  Most commonly this is (without a source) attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville or Alexander Fraser Tytler.

[ionel]

  On 10/18/2023 at 6:56 PM, Plasmodium said:

That can't be your takeaway.

At any rate, when your VP invents the Internet, you get to take your bows!

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Not a takeaway but there was and always is significant other economic factors in play that the President has no influence on. 

Also, B Clinton was pretty darn fiscally conservative (sim JFK) compared to recent Rs. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by ionel

[mspart]

  On 10/18/2023 at 8:10 PM, VakAttack said:

This is, of course, not a thing that can actually be found anywhere in Ben Franklin's work, writings, or speeches.  Most commonly this is (without a source) attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville or Alexander Fraser Tytler.

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Regardless, the saying is true. 

mspart

[ionel]

  On 10/18/2023 at 10:28 PM, mspart said:

Regardless, the saying is true. 

mspart

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Herd the below might be in question, but would really knows.