Top ten US freestylers of all time

[Le duke]

Word on the street is that Yazdani just had shoulder surgery and won’t even be in a mat until 4 months before Paris. He’ll then have to make the team and then beat Taylor.

Assuming Taylor beats Brooks, Taylor will likely knock out another gold next year unless some mystery Iranian or Russian/Bahrainian pops out of the woodwork a la Tazhudinov. Maybe Ghasempour finally steps up to the plate?

Also: I think Brooks would’ve medaled at senior worlds at 86kg this year.



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[Le duke]

Duplicate post.

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[Le duke]

Word on the street is that Yazdani just had shoulder surgery and won’t even be in a mat until 4 months before Paris. He’ll then have to make the team and then beat Taylor.

Assuming Taylor beats Brooks, Taylor will likely knock out another gold next year unless some mystery Iranian or Russian/Bahrainian pops out of the woodwork a la Tazhudinov. Maybe Ghasempour finally steps up to the plate?

Also: I think Brooks would’ve medaled at senior worlds at 86kg this year.



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TLDR version: I think DT wins another OLY gold and will be in a 6 weight class league of his own, in the US.


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[Gus]

41 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Word on the street is that Yazdani just had shoulder surgery and won’t even be in a mat until 4 months before Paris. He’ll then have to make the team and then beat Taylor.

Assuming Taylor beats Brooks, Taylor will likely knock out another gold next year unless some mystery Iranian or Russian/Bahrainian pops out of the woodwork a la Tazhudinov. Maybe Ghasempour finally steps up to the plate?

Also: I think Brooks would’ve medaled at senior worlds at 86kg this year.



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Didn't Ghasempour reportedly tear both groins before worlds?

[Le duke]

Didn't Ghasempour reportedly tear both groins before worlds?

He did, but he’s likely a lot further along in his recovery than Yazdani.

It’ll be a race to get on the mat and get fit, for both of them.


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[mspart]

This is Ouch like major triple dog dare Ouch!!    Double groin - Ouch!!!

mspart

[bnwtwg]

On 11/10/2023 at 4:37 PM, Le duke said:

TLDR version: I think DT wins another OLY gold and will be in a 6 weight class league of his own, in the US.


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Six weight classes works for, and against, Taylor and Dake and Cox.

If there were ten weights in worlds and oylmpics like in yesteryears you would likely have seen various combinations of a murderer's row of Burroughs-Dake-Taylor-Cox-Snyder from 2013 and on. Maybe Howe would have snuck in some appearances at 79? Regardless, absolutely filthy group.

Obviously the anti-argument has been discussed ad nauseum so no need to rehash it 5 pages and 10 years deep.

Edited November 13, 2023 by bnwtwg
unclear grammar

[wrestle87]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:41 PM, bnwtwg said:

Six weight classes works for, and against, Taylor and Dake and Cox.

I don’t fully buy this because of how large the weight jumps are and the impact of major weight cuts on performance.

For example, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that 65kg is more competitive with zain or james green in the weight, even though they are both world medalists at 70kg.

Fewer weights requires guys to make gigantic weight cuts, and then freezes certain guys out just based on genetics and their build.

It also becomes self-perpetuating, because guys who know they are tweeners will stop earlier because of the impact of a major cut or competing under weight.  

I’m tempted to make the opposite argument because of how much it drives guys out of competing.

20 pound weight class jumps are titanic. Imagine being vito, a solid career 133, and looking around and thinking man, 57kg is pretty far away, but my choice is that or go up and wrestle dudes who were career 149/157 guys?

I think it leaves ~30% of the best wrestlers or best wrestling performances on the side of the road unable to do anything bc of weight.

[AnklePicker]

2 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

I don’t fully buy this because of how large the weight jumps are and the impact of major weight cuts on performance.

For example, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that 65kg is more competitive with zain or james green in the weight, even though they are both world medalists at 70kg.

Fewer weights requires guys to make gigantic weight cuts, and then freezes certain guys out just based on genetics and their build.

It also becomes self-perpetuating, because guys who know they are tweeners will stop earlier because of the impact of a major cut or competing under weight.  

I’m tempted to make the opposite argument because of how much it drives guys out of competing.

20 pound weight class jumps are titanic. Imagine being vito, a solid career 133, and looking around and thinking man, 57kg is pretty far away, but my choice is that or go up and wrestle dudes who were career 149/157 guys?

I think it leaves ~30% of the best wrestlers or best wrestling performances on the side of the road unable to do anything bc of weight.

You're saying that having less weights doesn't make the remaining weights more deep?  I just heard David Taylor talking about just the opposite.  How loaded the weights are because of having less weights.  

[bnwtwg]

As I was saying...

On 11/13/2023 at 4:41 PM, bnwtwg said:

Obviously the anti-argument has been discussed ad nauseum so no need to rehash it 5 pages and 10 years deep.

 

[mspart]

10 weights!   Lets do it!!

At least FILA or UWW heard us and made it so for WCs.   That's at least something good.   I believe it makes the non Oly weights weaker but they still get medals. 

mspart

Edited November 15, 2023 by mspart

[wrestle87]

8 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

You're saying that having less weights doesn't make the remaining weights more deep?  I just heard David Taylor talking about just the opposite.  How loaded the weights are because of having less weights.  

I’m not saying there isn’t more crowding, but it’s definitely not linear bc of the impact that such massive weight jumps has on the relative playing field.  

There is a reason wrestling has weight classes, and generally guys are only true studs within 10-15 lbs of a particular weight depending on their size.  I don’t know enough about international teams to do the math, but how many guys who are studs at 61, 70, 79, or 92kg ever wind up making a team and being really successful at the olympic weights?

I understand this is a chicken and egg situation, but at only olympic weights, some of our best wrestlers suddenly become very mediocre, either bc they are small or bc of the weight cut.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I’m not saying there isn’t more crowding, but it’s definitely not linear bc of the impact that such massive weight jumps has on the relative playing field.  

There is a reason wrestling has weight classes, and generally guys are only true studs within 10-15 lbs of a particular weight depending on their size.  I don’t know enough about international teams to do the math, but how many guys who are studs at 61, 70, 79, or 92kg ever wind up making a team and being really successful at the olympic weights?

I understand this is a chicken and egg situation, but at only olympic weights, some of our best wrestlers suddenly become very mediocre, either bc they are small or bc of the weight cut.

Yes.  You can talk about how many NCAA champs are at a particular weight, but maybe half of those guys are too small or are cutting too much weight.  

[Le duke]

I’m not a huge Yianni fan but the kid can wrestle and isn’t overrated, at all. He wrestles as the hardest international weight class and has a senior level Worlds medal.


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[mspart]

57 and 65 will be a fight to the almost death.   These will be hotly contested.   The fact we have WCs at 61 and 70 but not at 57 and 65, that should say something about the depth of the non Oly weights.  So we have WCs trying to make the Oly team at 57 and 65 I'm guessing and they may not make it due to weight issues. 

mspart

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

17 hours ago, Le duke said:

I’m not a huge Yianni fan but the kid can wrestle and isn’t overrated, at all. He wrestles as the hardest international weight class and has a senior level Worlds medal.


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I agree with a lot of this, but still am not sure why his weight is tougher than 86, 97, or 125.  Pretty tough to beat Yaz, Taylor, Snyder, Saduleev, Taz, Geno, Taha, or Zare.

Yianni's weight has parity, but none of the star power or consistency or the studs at 86, 97, 125.

[Le duke]

I agree with a lot of this, but still am not sure why his weight is tougher than 86, 97, or 125.  Pretty tough to beat Yaz, Taylor, Snyder, Saduleev, Taz, Geno, Taha, or Zare.
Yianni's weight has parity, but none of the star power or consistency or the studs at 86, 97, 125.

65kg and and to a lesser extent 74kg are more representative of the average male human around the world than any other weight class.

And, because so many countries produce so many adult males around that size, parity results, and it’s harder to get athletes with said star power.


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[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:

65kg and and to a lesser extent 74kg are more representative of the average male human around the world than any other weight class.

And, because so many countries produce so many adult males around that size, parity results, and it’s harder to get athletes with said star power.


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Fadzaev? Burroughs? Sidakov?  Dake? Big Yaz? Monday? Both Satievs?

Edited November 17, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[nhs67]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:31 AM, nhs67 said:

1 - Kyle Dake

2 - David Taylor

3 - David Taylor

4 - David Taylor

5 - David Taylor

6 - David Taylor

7 - David Taylor

8 - David Taylor

9 - David Taylor

10 - David Taylor

 

OP should have the power to KO threads.

This thread should have been done when I posted this.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

65kg and and to a lesser extent 74kg are more representative of the average male human around the world than any other weight class.

And, because so many countries produce so many adult males around that size, parity results, and it’s harder to get athletes with said star power.


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And I'm honestly thinking about this as I just went for a run, not trying to be combative or trolling. 

I fully agree that most people on earth would be in these middleweights, but I'd argue that soccer and cricket take a disproportionate number of those guys... leaving the leftovers for wrestling.  There are some big soccer players, certainly, but I'd imagine most of them are around the middle.  Disproportionately so.  Not a lot of Akgul sized footballers!

[mspart]

Top Ten

1.  John Smith

2.  Big Bruce

3.  JB

4.  KS

5.  Dave Schultz

6.  Kenny Monday

7.  Mark Schultz

8.   Dake

9.  Taylor

10  Cox

I could be persuaded to change my mind, but just sitting here thinking about it, these are the top 10, maybe not in the order given but I think these are the top 10.

mspart