Twitter is better

[jross]

1 hour ago, jross said:

1. Is Eric a Nazi, or 2. does he support Hitler?  3. Is Musk agreeing with a Nazi?

4. Does criticizing Jewish behavior, or criticizing anti-white behavior, make someone a Nazi?

5. Have Jewish activists, ADL, etc. communities 'pushed hate' through actions that many see as anti-white?

1. No Eric is not a Nazi.  He supports Israel.
2. No, he does not support Hitler, the Nazis, or the intention behind the Holocaust.
3. No.  Musk agrees with Eric, and neither supports Nazis.
4. No.  Criticizing anti-white behavior does not make someone a White supremacist.
5. Yes.

[jross]

So CNN and the like are framing Musk unfairly.  Framing comments wrongly is common.  It happens on this forum just like it does in the news.  

I don't have the context behind these companies' decisions.

Given stupid people broadcast false narratives, association with that narrative causes brand damage.  Of course, the company would distance itself.

We need more people/companies to set the record straight like Dana White / UFC sometimes does.

[jross]

15 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

And you know this in the case of the above companies how?

Tell me you don't work for a large corporation without telling me how.

It is not true in all scenarios, yet the (larger unspoken) mantra is commonly observed concerning initial investments versus ongoing maintenance and force multiplier investments.  Training, Equipment, Repairs, Infrastructure, Landscaping, Market Research, etc., and so on.

Edited November 17, 2023 by jross
expand

[Wrestleknownothing]

20 minutes ago, jross said:

Tell me you don't work for a large corporation without telling me how.

It is not true in all scenarios, yet the (larger unspoken) mantra is commonly observed concerning initial investments versus ongoing maintenance and force multiplier investments.  Training, Equipment, Repairs, Infrastructure, Landscaping, Market Research, etc., and so on.

That is a lot of words to not answer the question with. And how did landscaping make it into that disjointed list of things that is neither a sentence nor seemingly related to the prior sentence?

[jross]

The landscaping one...

Cracked sidewalks, potholes in parking lots, faded parking lines, acres of parking lots rather than parking garages, stains on the wall, 30-year-old worn carpet, suspended ceiling tile issues, unmowed grass, etc., and so on.  It is a bad appearance for customers, and it's bad for the employees that a company is spending so much money on.

I worked for a large corporation (30K employees) that bought another corporation... the buildings of the other acquired company were such a drag.  Nobody wanted to relocate there.  The current employees there were especially upset when they visited other locations owned by the acquiring company... okay for a time... apathetic... then employee attrition.  They did get free coffee.  We'll have to circle back on this.

[jross]

I've worked for a few large corporations... corporations so big that the culture varies by project, team, business unit, organization, etc.  I've gone through examples where a significant investment was made while still underfunded and with limited continuous funding.  Cost-cutting and penny-pinching lead to bad decisions on tools, education, travel, layoffs, etc.  This experience originates my proposal that it is likely that these advertisers are not fully funded to manage Twitter tooling in-depth and on a frequent enough basis.  

[uncle bernard]

Guy 1: "If you agree with Hitler, say it"

Guy 2: "Okay [I'll say it], *repeats core antisemitic myth of Nazism*...

Elon: "I agree"

Elon might not be a literal "Nazi" in the sense that he doesn't belong to the Nazi party, but he's pretty open about believing a core tenant of the Nazi's views on Jews. 

And guess what, if you believe "Jews" are pushing anti-white hate, you are also buying into a core myth of Nazism. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, jross said:

I've worked for a few large corporations... corporations so big that the culture varies by project, team, business unit, organization, etc.  I've gone through examples where a significant investment was made while still underfunded and with limited continuous funding.  Cost-cutting and penny-pinching lead to bad decisions on tools, education, travel, layoffs, etc.  This experience originates my proposal that it is likely that these advertisers are not fully funded to manage Twitter tooling in-depth and on a frequent enough basis.  

I have worked at companies as large as 25,000 and as small as 15. My experience with large companies has been varied depending on ownership structure. The 25,000 employee public company did not cut corners on anything. A 13,000 person company owned by private equity was a poor experience as they sought to lever up the business and pay themselves bonuses. That does not in any way describe Apple, Oracle, or IBM. They are massively profitable, tech native, brand sensitive companies. They are not short changing marketing. Apple spent $1.8 billion on advertising, marketing, and promotions in 2020. IBM spent $1.3 billion in 2022. They treat these line items as investments, not as set it and forget it. You argument makes no sense to me.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[jross]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have worked at companies as large as 75,000 and as small as 15. My experience with large companies has been varied depending on ownership structure. The 75,000 employee public company did not cut corners on anything. A 13,000 person company owned by private equity was a poor experience as they sought to lever up the business and pay themselves bonuses. That does not in any way describe Apple, Oracle, or IBM. They are massively profitable, tech native, brand sensitive companies. They are not short changing marketing. Apple spent $1.8 billion on advertising, marketing, and promotions in 2020. IBM spent $1.3 billion in 2022. They treat these line items as investments, not as set it and forget it. You argument makes no sense to me.

At least one company you've listed, I've lived it.  The skeleton crew is responsible for audacious deliverables.

[jross]

5 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Guy 1: "If you agree with Hitler, say it"

Guy 2: "Okay [I'll say it], *repeats core antisemitic myth of Nazism*...

Elon: "I agree"

Elon might not be a literal "Nazi" in the sense that he doesn't belong to the Nazi party, but he's pretty open about believing a core tenant of the Nazi's views on Jews. 

And guess what, if you believe "Jews" are pushing anti-white hate, you are also buying into a core myth of Nazism. 

Wrong interpretation.  Eric does not express agreement with Hitler.

I believe 'people' are pushing agendas that white people interpret as anti-white, and some of these people are Jewish.

• DEI, etc. initiatives that focus on outcomes based on color rather than merit is racism.
• People, including many Jews, support immigration to America.  Some of these immigrants are anti-Jewish.  Why would a Jewish person support the proximal immigration of people who hate them?   The behavior is thought-provoking, if not worthy of criticism.

Nothing I've said here makes me a supporter of Nazis, and it is mental sickness if someone was to imply it did.

Explain 'white guilt' in this video.
 

 

[uncle bernard]

12 minutes ago, jross said:

Wrong interpretation.  Eric does not express agreement with Hitler.

I believe 'people' are pushing agendas that white people interpret as anti-white, and some of these people are Jewish.

• DEI, etc. initiatives that focus on outcomes based on color rather than merit is racism.
• People, including many Jews, support immigration to America.  Some of these immigrants are anti-Jewish.  Why would a Jewish person support the proximal immigration of people who hate them?   The behavior is thought-provoking, if not worthy of criticism.

Nothing I've said here makes me a supporter of Nazis, and it is mental sickness if someone was to imply it did.

Explain 'white guilt' in this video.
 

 

No, you are doing a ton of work to read in a more generous interpretation of what he actually said.

There is a difference between saying:

"some Jews" believe these things that some white people might interpret as anti-white (because some members of every ethnic group believe those things)

and

"Jewish communities push anti-white hate and therefore I don't care if Jews face anti-semitism from "hordes of minorities."

He finishes with "You want truth said to your face, there it is" in response to someone saying "If you believe Hitler was right, say it to my face." 

 

[jross]

4 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

No, you are doing a ton of work to read in a more generous interpretation of what he actually said.

There is a difference between saying:

"some Jews" believe these things that some white people might interpret as anti-white (because some members of every ethnic group believe those things)

and

"Jewish communities push anti-white hate and therefore I don't care if Jews face anti-semitism from "hordes of minorities."

He finishes with "You want truth said to your face, there it is" in response to someone saying "If you believe Hitler was right, say it to my face." 

 

 

Have you or any of the 'interpreters' read Eric's tweets before this tweet, his tweet replies... and did the news companies call him before blasting Musk for agreeing with him?  
 

Hey chatbot, what say you?

[jross]

4 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

No, you are doing a ton of work to read in a more generous interpretation...

Did you know you are the 'Eric' of the Israel thread?  Readers do not understand you.  Readers assume you have positions that are not true. 

Some life rules apply... like Musk didn't become successful by being a shithead... and his gig is to make humanity better... which he does... so perhaps it's worth 'hard work' to help discern truth from bullshit.

From previous conversations, I have a lot of respect for the other Bernie member.  In my confusion about member names, while baffled at some of your comments in the Israel thread, it was easier for me to want to understand better what you were and were not saying.  Other Bernie earned it, like Musk has earned it.  We(I) should give the benefit of the doubt to most everyone.  Communication is hard, and words are Tyranny.

[headshuck]

[Plasmodium]

@jross -  you are actually defending this guy?    In your own words, what do think Musk meant to communicate when he  responded “You have said the actual truth.”

 

[headshuck]

[uncle bernard]

18 hours ago, jross said:

Did you know you are the 'Eric' of the Israel thread?  Readers do not understand you.  Readers assume you have positions that are not true. 

Some life rules apply... like Musk didn't become successful by being a shithead... and his gig is to make humanity better... which he does... so perhaps it's worth 'hard work' to help discern truth from bullshit.

From previous conversations, I have a lot of respect for the other Bernie member.  In my confusion about member names, while baffled at some of your comments in the Israel thread, it was easier for me to want to understand better what you were and were not saying.  Other Bernie earned it, like Musk has earned it.  We(I) should give the benefit of the doubt to most everyone.  Communication is hard, and words are Tyranny.

at the absolute BEST, most generous interpretation, he is saying he doesn’t sympathize for victims of antisemitism because some jews push ideas he disagrees with. 

and then elon endorses that position. 

i think that’s a gross thing to say. 

you hyperfocus on one part of the statement to ignore the rest that contains the context to make sense of the whole thing. 

people in the israel thread charge me with saying things i don’t say. yes, that’s wrong and i commend you for reading generously. but in this case you’re ignoring things this guys actually did say. 

[jross]

3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

@jross -  you are actually defending this guy?    In your own words, what do think Musk meant to communicate when he  responded “You have said the actual truth.”

Charles Weber says

• To the cowards hiding behind the anonymity of the internet and posting "Hitler was right"... You got something you want to say? Why don't you say it to our faces…

Formerly Eric says

• Okay.... <criticizes Jews for behavior> ... You want truth said to your face, there it is. 
  • Criticism Part 1: Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
  • Criticism Part 2: I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much.

My words

• Eric tells his truth to Charles' face.  I understand Eric's truth as
  • Part 1: Some Jewish communities push white hatred while against people pushing Jewish hatred.  
  • Part 2: Given the double standard, Eric has little empathy for the Western Jews who supported mass immigration... and is now bothered by an increase in proximal immigrants who hate Jews...
• Eric's 'truth' is not expressing support for Hitler.  For you lawyer types... 'okay, he will tell the truth,' but it's not about Hitler.  You have to read the context to understand that...
• Musk agrees with Eric and continues
  • The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop.
  • You are right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL
  • And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind. I’m sick of it. Stop now.

I am not defending Eric's insensitive communication.  I am saying that his comment does not support Hitler and neither does Musk.

Doing a little timeline viewing confirms Eric's support for Jews, Israel, etc. https://twitter.com/breakingbaht/with_replies

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by jross

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

at the absolute BEST, most generous interpretation, he is saying he doesn’t sympathize for victims of antisemitism because some jews push ideas he disagrees with. 

and then elon endorses that position. 

i think that’s a gross thing to say. 

you hyperfocus on one part of the statement to ignore the rest that contains the context to make sense of the whole thing. 

people in the israel thread charge me with saying things i don’t say. yes, that’s wrong and i commend you for reading generously. but in this case you’re ignoring things this guys actually did say. 

Distinctly, Eric has no compassion for those opposing antisemitism while harboring anti-white sentiments.  

Read what Eric and Musk say on their Twitter timelines and they will tell you what they mean.

They both criticize the ADL specifically... in later tweets.

[Plasmodium]

2 hours ago, jross said:

Charles Weber says

• To the cowards hiding behind the anonymity of the internet and posting "Hitler was right"... You got something you want to say? Why don't you say it to our faces…

Formerly Eric says

• Okay.... <criticizes Jews for behavior> ... You want truth said to your face, there it is. 
  • Criticism Part 1: Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.
  • Criticism Part 2: I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much.

My words

• Eric tells his truth to Charles' face.  I understand Eric's truth as
  • Part 1: Some Jewish communities push white hatred while against people pushing Jewish hatred.  
  • Part 2: Given the double standard, Eric has little empathy for the Western Jews who supported mass immigration... and is now bothered by an increase in proximal immigrants who hate Jews...
• Eric's 'truth' is not expressing support for Hitler.  For you lawyer types... 'okay, he will tell the truth,' but it's not about Hitler.  You have to read the context to understand that...
• Musk agrees with Eric and continues
  • The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop.
  • You are right that this does not extend to all Jewish communities, but it is also not just limited to ADL
  • And, at the risk of being repetitive, I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind. I’m sick of it. Stop now.

I am not defending Eric's insensitive communication.  I am saying that his comment does not support Hitler and neither does Musk.

Doing a little timeline viewing confirms Eric's support for Jews, Israel, etc. https://twitter.com/breakingbaht/with_replies

 

Eric's comment is unequivocal antisemitism. Musk agreed with it.  The fact that Eric created that reply to a comment about Hitler sympathizers makes him a low life.   You are adding imaginary context to make them seem palatable.

[jross]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Eric's comment is unequivocal antisemitism. Musk agreed with it.  The fact that Eric created that reply to a comment about Hitler sympathizers makes him a low life.   You are adding imaginary context to make them seem palatable.

Bad post, yes.  Bad to agree with a heated post, yes.  

antisemitism?  No.  It is a criticism of actions from some, rather than all Jews.

The CNN leopard can’t change its spots.  Twist and smear.

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Bad post, yes.  Bad to agree with a heated post, yes.  

antisemitism?  No.  It is a criticism of actions from some, rather than all Jews.

The CNN leopard can’t change its spots.  Twist and smear.

You’re obviously a racist. [sarc]

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Bad post, yes.  Bad to agree with a heated post, yes.  

antisemitism?  No.  It is a criticism of actions from some, rather than all Jews.

The CNN leopard can’t change its spots.  Twist and smear.

Where does he say "some"?  Because then you're just adding your own context.  Unless the "some" you're referring to is where he said "Western Jews" and I guess there we're saying he didn't mean all the Jews in the world, just all the Jews the westernized world, which....cool?  And that's if we (generously) completely divorce it from the context of replying to a post about Hitler.

[Plasmodium]

8 hours ago, jross said:

Bad post, yes.  Bad to agree with a heated post, yes.  

antisemitism?  No.  It is a criticism of actions from some, rather than all Jews.

The CNN leopard can’t change its spots.  Twist and smear.

What makes the tweet antisemitic is that it accuses all Jews of pushing hate, not some.  The fact that it is an enthusiastic response to someone daring Hitler sympathizers to come out of the closet is bizarre in its own right.

[jross]

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

What makes the tweet antisemitic is that it accuses all Jews of pushing hate, not some.  The fact that it is an enthusiastic response to someone daring Hitler sympathizers to come out of the closet is bizarre in its own right.

Enthusiastic is the wrong word choice.  The post is dismissive and critical.