How is a person saved today?

[Gus]

We have plenty of political topics on here so lets start a topic on salvation. How do you think a person experiences salvation today? I have my thoughts, but curious to hear what you all think. God's peace and grace to all of you. Let this be a fruitful and respectful conversation.

[Bigbrog]

I am not a practicing religious person today but do believe in God.  I think one way to experience salvation today is to begin to understand some of the basic tenants of what the Lord preaches of just be a good freaking person.  But is extremely hard to do every day.

[jross]

Faith, Submission, Ethical Deeds, Baptism, Devotion, Growth, Knowledge, Meditation, and Connection are some of the themes across religion, of which there are more sects than can be counted.

The one unifying morality across cultures, including Atheism, is to follow the Golden Rule.  I don't know if it will lead to salvation, but it has been proven over the Millennia to be key to a compassionate, harmonious, and grateful life.

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

I am not a practicing religious person today but do believe in God.  I think one way to experience salvation today is to begin to understand some of the basic tenants of what the Lord preaches of just be a good freaking person.  But is extremely hard to do every day.

Isn't the answer the same today as it was yesterday?

If you accept the Fjord Chris Christie in to your wife you win?

If not I have a bone to pick with someone else about their boning of my wife.

[Ban Basketball]

1 hour ago, jross said:

The one unifying morality across cultures, including Atheism, is to follow the Golden Rule.  

I appreciate your point,  but that wouldn't be exactly correct. 

[Gus]

25 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

I appreciate your point,  but that wouldn't be exactly correct. 

What's your take Ban?

[Ban Basketball]

1 minute ago, Gus said:

What's your take Ban?

Just because of my educational background and occupation,  I always have red flags go up when we speak of univesals across cultures.  They rarely happen and when they do they are very broad. 

We can't really accurately say that the Golden Rule exists across all cultures.  It simply doesn't,  and is a Christian construction. 

[jross]

15 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

We can't really accurately say that the Golden Rule exists across all cultures. 

That statement is likely true.

 

16 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

It simply doesn't,  and is a Christian construction. 

This is false, it is not only a Christian construction. 

In Confucianism, Tzu-kung asked, “Is there one word which can serve as the guiding principle for conduct throughout life?”  Confucius said, “It is the word altruism (shu).  Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.”  [Analects 15:23]

Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc. all have the golden rule in meaning, if not always the same words.  ...The ethics of reciprocity is a common tradition.

[Ban Basketball]

34 minutes ago, jross said:

That statement is likely true.

 

This is false, it is not only a Christian construction. 

In Confucianism, Tzu-kung asked, “Is there one word which can serve as the guiding principle for conduct throughout life?”  Confucius said, “It is the word altruism (shu).  Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.”  [Analects 15:23]

Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc. all have the golden rule in meaning, if not always the same words.  ...The ethics of reciprocity is a common tradition.

I meant our usage of it in the Bible as,  "The Golden Rule" and what it means within a Christian context is what I meant by it being a Christian construction. 

I don't want to take the OP's initial question into the weeds, so I'll back out of it. 

It's a good conversation for spiritual and religious folks. 

[Gus]

8 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

I meant our usage of it in the Bible as,  "The Golden Rule" and what it means within a Christian context is what I meant by it being a Christian construction. 

I don't want to take the OP's initial question into the weeds, so I'll back out of it. 

It's a good conversation for spiritual and religious folks. 

I think it's a question for everyone, the spiritual and the un-spiritual, the religious and the atheist.. Where are we headed after this life and how will we get there?

[ionel]

4 hours ago, Gus said:

We have plenty of political topics on here so lets start a topic on salvation. How do you think a person experiences salvation today? I have my thoughts, but curious to hear what you all think. God's peace and grace to all of you. Let this be a fruitful and respectful conversation.

Has it changed?

Edited September 8, 2023 by ionel

[mspart]

44 minutes ago, Gus said:

I think it's a question for everyone, the spiritual and the un-spiritual, the religious and the atheist.. Where are we headed after this life and how will we get there?

How will we get there?   The Monty Python parrot sketch has a good description:

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

That is how we will get there!!

mspart

 

 

[Gus]

17 minutes ago, ionel said:

Has it changed?

Since the creation of the world? Yes. It, however, has not changed in the last ~2000 years. God has had different administrations, or dispensations, for how he has dealt with people throughout history. The way which is person is saved today, is not the same as it was under the law of Moses. In the times of the law of Moses, the way to salvation was faith plus works (keeping the law). Today, in the age of grace, the way to salvation is to have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Nothing more, nothing less. Once a person puts their faith in the finished work of the cross, their salvation is immediately sealed (Ephesians 1:13).  

[Gus]

12 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

I am not a practicing religious person today but do believe in God.  I think one way to experience salvation today is to begin to understand some of the basic tenants of what the Lord preaches of just be a good freaking person.  But is extremely hard to do every day.

Not only is it extremely hard, it’s impossible. In Romans chapters 1–3 God (through the Apostle Paul - side note: all scripture is the inspired word of God, no matter who the author is) is building his case against the 3 groups of humanity - the immoral person, the moral person and the religious person. It’s really interesting and reads almost like a court case. What is the conclusion?
Romans 3:10 “as it is written, There is none righteous, no not one”

Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God”

Being in sin = death. Thankfully, we have an advocate in the Lord Jesus Christ

Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Romans 5:8 “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

When we have faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ - we are saved. Nothing less, nothing more. When we have faith in the gospel we experience God’s saving grace. 

1 Cor 15:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”

[Plasmodium]

19 hours ago, Gus said:

I think it's a question for everyone, the spiritual and the un-spiritual, the religious and the atheist.. Where are we headed after this life and how will we get there?

There is no afterlife per se.  We live beyond our physical self through legacy and people.

[flyingcement]

Grew up Catholic in a devout family - had always looked forward to and hoped for a form of afterlife.  I certainly feel less confident that there will be one, but I am hopeful.  It won't change how I live one way or another personally.  Would you mind clarifying a bit more about what you mean by salvation specifically?  I guess I don't think people inherently require saving.  

[Ban Basketball]

3 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I guess I don't think people inherently require saving.  

You're right,  in that some Christian traditions believe saving is the only way,  while most do not. 

[ionel]

6 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

There is no afterlife per se.  We live beyond our physical self through legacy and people.

How do you know?

[Plasmodium]

7 hours ago, ionel said:

How do you know?

I have faith.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I have faith.

There you go. 

[Gus]

9 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Grew up Catholic in a devout family - had always looked forward to and hoped for a form of afterlife.  I certainly feel less confident that there will be one, but I am hopeful.  It won't change how I live one way or another personally.  Would you mind clarifying a bit more about what you mean by salvation specifically?  I guess I don't think people inherently require saving.  

By salvation I mean the deliverance from hell. There is a Heaven and a hell and when a person experiences salvation, they will be saved from spending an eternity in hell. 

[Gus]

9 hours ago, Ban Basketball said:

You're right,  in that some Christian traditions believe saving is the only way,  while most do not. 

Which Christian traditions do not believe in salvation?

[flyingcement]

1 minute ago, Gus said:

By salvation I mean the deliverance from hell. There is a Heaven and a hell and when a person experiences salvation, they will be saved from spending an eternity in hell. 

Understood.  I don't believe that to be the case (an existence of a Heaven and Hell in the Biblical sense), but of course I don't know for sure.  

[Gus]

1 minute ago, flyingcement said:

Understood.  I don't believe that to be the case (an existence of a Heaven and Hell in the Biblical sense), but of course I don't know for sure.  

Do you believe the Bible to be the inspired and true Word of God? I hear your a response similar to yours a lot and I am curious to understand the reasoning

[flyingcement]

19 minutes ago, Gus said:

Do you believe the Bible to be the inspired and true Word of God? I hear your a response similar to yours a lot and I am curious to understand the reasoning

I don't believe any written book would be immune to humans desire to change the message as they were putting ideas to paper.  Considering the number of translations as well as the points at which different books were considered to be included by committees of the Vatican, there have been plenty of opportunities for people to intervene and change original stories.  The human memory also doesn't work perfectly and these stories were told by mouth for many decades before being written down.  And I'm only talking New Testament here obviously with Old Testament being what I believe is obviously allegorical in many places.  

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by flyingcement