Koll off to UNC

[billyhoyle]

  On 9/13/2023 at 1:02 PM, BigRedFan said:

Why would anyone smart enough to get into Princeton or Stanford wish to transfer?  Was Koll the actual on-mat coach at Stanford, such that a wrestler at Stanford wouldn't progress as much in his training under the other Stanford coaches or Ayres himself?  Why would Koll coming to UNC drive anyone away from UNC?

When Koll left Cornell, a number of recruits followed him to Stanford (a school upgrade, for sure).  Only one of those recruits (Cardenas) was likely going to break into the Cornell starting lineup, so those recruits made a smart choice.

As fine an institution as, say, Iowa or Penn State is, each isn't exactly Stanford or Princeton.

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Think about it like this: Before Koll was at Stanford, the recruits who went there were significantly worse than the years he was coach. A similar pool of athletes had the option to apply to/attend Stanford, but they did not do so. Athletes were choosing to go to Stanford in large part because of Koll.  With Koll leaving, they will of course consider the option to leave with him.  Ayres is a great hire, and I think he will be able to convince many to stay who may not have otherwise done so.

Based on your username, it sounds like you attended Cornell...How many of the athletes there were really focused on academics to a point where the switch to another great school like UNC would matter? There are only a handful of career paths (if any actually) where the difference between UNC/Cornell/Stanford undergrad matters. 

[BigRedFan]

  On 9/14/2023 at 10:29 AM, billyhoyle said:

Think about it like this: Before Koll was at Stanford, the recruits who went there were significantly worse than the years he was coach. A similar pool of athletes had the option to apply to/attend Stanford, but they did not do so. Athletes were choosing to go to Stanford in large part because of Koll.  With Koll leaving, they will of course consider the option to leave with him.  Ayres is a great hire, and I think he will be able to convince many to stay who may not have otherwise done so.

Based on your username, it sounds like you attended Cornell...How many of the athletes there were really focused on academics to a point where the switch to another great school like UNC would matter? There are only a handful of career paths (if any actually) where the difference between UNC/Cornell/Stanford undergrad matters. 

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I ran track at Cornell a long time ago, and I'd say nearly all the athletes I knew were there for the academics.  I can't speak for the hockey team, though.

Very, very few Ivy undergraduate wrestlers (and likely other athletes) transfer, even though there are a plethora of better programs with better coaches.  IIRC, nobody followed Koll from Cornell to Stanford.  

I disagree with the idea that a degree from UNC is no different in most career paths than one from Cornell or Stanford.  Merited or not, that's the way it is.  You might consider the idea that recruits went to Cornell (when Koll was there) and Stanford (when Koll was there) because Koll helped get them into those schools, in addition to the idea that Koll had built a great program at Cornell and was likely to do the same at Stanford.  I'm sure he'll do the same at UNC.  We'll find out soon enough if current Stanford wrestlers or recruits follow him.

[1032004]

  On 9/14/2023 at 11:14 AM, BigRedFan said:

I ran track at Cornell a long time ago, and I'd say nearly all the athletes I knew were there for the academics.  I can't speak for the hockey team, though.

Very, very few Ivy undergraduate wrestlers (and likely other athletes) transfer, even though there are a plethora of better programs with better coaches.  IIRC, nobody followed Koll from Cornell to Stanford.  

I disagree with the idea that a degree from UNC is no different in most career paths than one from Cornell or Stanford.  Merited or not, that's the way it is.  You might consider the idea that recruits went to Cornell (when Koll was there) and Stanford (when Koll was there) because Koll helped get them into those schools, in addition to the idea that Koll had built a great program at Cornell and was likely to do the same at Stanford.  I'm sure he'll do the same at UNC.  We'll find out soon enough if current Stanford wrestlers or recruits follow him.

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Taking a quick look at wrestlestat, it looks like Chayse Lajoie did, albeit he was grayshirting.  Dom did as well but I believe that was a grad transfer so I won’t count that one.  

 

 

[BigRedFan]

  On 9/14/2023 at 12:38 PM, 1032004 said:

Taking a quick look at wrestlestat, it looks like Chayse Lajoie did, albeit he was grayshirting.  Dom did as well but I believe that was a grad transfer so I won’t count that one.  

 

 

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There are a number of guys who greyshirted and never enrolled at Cornell.  Not everyone who commits to Cornell and greyshirts actually gets admitted to Cornell, by the way.  Can't speak for the situation of any particular wrestler.  Dom had already graduated.

[pokemonster]

  On 9/14/2023 at 11:14 AM, BigRedFan said:

I disagree with the idea that a degree from UNC is no different in most career paths than one from Cornell or Stanford.  Merited or not, that's the way it is.  You might consider the idea that recruits went to Cornell (when Koll was there) and Stanford (when Koll was there) because Koll helped get them into those schools, in addition to the idea that Koll had built a great program at Cornell and was likely to do the same at Stanford.  I'm sure he'll do the same at UNC.  We'll find out soon enough if current Stanford wrestlers or recruits follow him.

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It looks like most of the highly sought-after recruits do not participate in meaningful degrees and instead get something along the lines of Tourism Management, Sports Management, Parks and Rec, Psych. etc. Do those degrees really matter if it says "UNC" or "Stanford" after it? Genuine question, btw. 

Edit to add: Just did some creeping on Penn State's team, almost all of them are enrolled in "RPTM" or Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by pokemonster
Additional info

[JVStateChamp]

My opinion on the Koll move to UNC which is just speculative on interviews he has done in the past week was that this move was as much of a personal decision as a career decision. It is no secret that Koll's dream job has been the head coach at UNC, I believe he feels that Chapel Hill is a more desirable place to live that offers more benefits than Stanford. Koll is also very transparent in what he considers the potential of UNC's wrestling program. In his eyes, being on the east coast lends itself to more high-level recruits and UNC is a great combination of a program with the tools, resources, and financials to succeed on and off the mat. UNC admissions is more generous to accepting athletes which in turn will accelerate the success of the program in ways that Koll did not have at Cornell or Stanford. 

[BigRedFan]

  On 9/14/2023 at 1:22 PM, pokemonster said:

It looks like most of the highly sought-after recruits do not participate in meaningful degrees and instead get something along the lines of Tourism Management, Sports Management, Parks and Rec, Psych. etc. Do those degrees really matter if it says "UNC" or "Stanford" after it? Genuine question, btw. 

Edit to add: Just did some creeping on Penn State's team, almost all of them are enrolled in "RPTM" or Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management. 

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The school name on the diploma still matters.

Cornell's roster has 14 in the Ag School, 5 in the Arts & Sciences, 5 in Engineering/CS, 3 in Architecture (including Foca and Cardenas), 3 in ILR, 3 in the Business School, and 1 in Human Ecology.

[1032004]

  On 9/14/2023 at 1:22 PM, pokemonster said:

 

Edit to add: Just did some creeping on Penn State's team, almost all of them are enrolled in "RPTM" or Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management. 

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I believe Haines said he was “Fish and Wildlife management” which may be part of that

[ionel]

  On 9/14/2023 at 5:14 PM, 1032004 said:

I believe Haines said he was “Fish and Wildlife management” which may be part of that

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Pretty sure that is not a major, perhaps a concentration within the major.

[1032004]

  On 9/14/2023 at 5:28 PM, ionel said:

Pretty sure that is not a major, perhaps a concentration within the major.

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Sorry, “Wildlife and Fisheries Science.”

https://agsci.psu.edu/academics/undergraduate/majors/wildlife-and-fisheries-science

[pawrestler]

Imagine Haines blast doubling you for forgetting to sign your duck stamp 

[11986]

Guess it’s easy to poke fun at certain majors but maybe guys have a legit interest in certain career paths that don’t include working on Wall Street. 

[1032004]

I’m also not knocking any of those “easy” majors as I had one of them as mine as well.

I honestly never really thought Psych was considered “easy” though, just that it was pointless unless you get an advanced degree.   Maybe it’s the easiest at Stanford though, I saw both Woods and Abas were psych majors.

[billyhoyle]

  On 9/14/2023 at 3:28 PM, BigRedFan said:

The school name on the diploma still matters.

Cornell's roster has 14 in the Ag School, 5 in the Arts & Sciences, 5 in Engineering/CS, 3 in Architecture (including Foca and Cardenas), 3 in ILR, 3 in the Business School, and 1 in Human Ecology.

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But given the major choices it’s clear the difference between UNC, Stanford, and Cornell in terms of reputation are insignificant. The main driver of choice for most is the elite wrestling program combined with being a very good school. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by billyhoyle

[1032004]

  On 9/14/2023 at 3:28 PM, BigRedFan said:

The school name on the diploma still matters.

Cornell's roster has 14 in the Ag School, 5 in the Arts & Sciences, 5 in Engineering/CS, 3 in Architecture (including Foca and Cardenas), 3 in ILR, 3 in the Business School, and 1 in Human Ecology.

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I’d venture a guess that the starting lineup has a higher % in the Ag school and a lower % in engineering.  What is ILR?

[BigRedFan]

  On 9/14/2023 at 11:54 PM, 1032004 said:

I’d venture a guess that the starting lineup has a higher % in the Ag school and a lower % in engineering.  What is ILR?

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ILR is Industrial & Labor Relations.  AKA "Hotel School".

The Ag school majority is due to 1) it's a bit easier to get into than the Arts College or Engineering, and 2) it's a little cheaper.  That doesn't mean it necessarily has an easier course load, by any means.

[ionel]

  On 9/14/2023 at 11:54 PM, 1032004 said:

I’d venture a guess that the starting lineup has a higher % in the Ag school and a lower % in engineering. 

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Isn't this pretty much true of most programs?  Engineering is pretty tough anywhere in terms of time commitment etc. doesn't really work well with wrestling. 

[BigRedFan]

  On 9/14/2023 at 11:54 PM, 1032004 said:

I’d venture a guess that the starting lineup has a higher % in the Ag school and a lower % in engineering.  What is ILR?

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Starting lineup, best guess

Ag school:  2

Architecture:  2 (very time-consuming, IIRC)

ILR: 1

Business:  2

Not listed:  3

[1032004]

  On 9/15/2023 at 2:27 AM, BigRedFan said:

Starting lineup, best guess

Ag school:  2

Architecture:  2 (very time-consuming, IIRC)

ILR: 1

Business:  2

Not listed:  3

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Interesting, unless the 3 unlisted are Ag school then I guess I’m wrong.

Side note, I did not realize that Shapiro was from Maryland originally.  Not big in number, but Maryland has been producing some studs recently

[Plasmodium]

Cornell's academics pop up a lot.  I stalked the Cornell team about ten years and all the starters were ag school.  Did it again a couple of years ago and most weren't in the ag school.  Couple were engineering students.

IMO, mixed bag.

[D3 for LU]

  On 9/15/2023 at 2:02 PM, Plasmodium said:

Cornell's academics pop up a lot.  I stalked the Cornell team about ten years and all the starters were ag school.  Did it again a couple of years ago and most weren't in the ag school.  Couple were engineering students.

IMO, mixed bag.

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I heard there's a lot of stalkers up there at Ithaca... some are agriculture, some are engineering (depending which way the tundra wind is blowing.)

... watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow!

D3

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/15/2023 at 9:42 AM, 1032004 said:

Interesting, unless the 3 unlisted are Ag school then I guess I’m wrong.

Side note, I did not realize that Shapiro was from Maryland originally.  Not big in number, but Maryland has been producing some studs recently

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That’s only if you count Snyder, Maroulis, Myles Martin, and PD3 as studs!

[1032004]

  On 9/15/2023 at 7:31 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That’s only if you count Snyder, Maroulis, Myles Martin, and PD3 as studs!

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Martin is really from NJ.  But you can replace him with Brooks

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, 1032004 said:

Martin is really from NJ.  But you can replace him with Brooks

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Of course! Martin jersey born and MD prep school?

[scribers]

Koll should have never left Cornell. Watching him waffle now is cringy