Iowa vs Penn State head to head next season

[Laxhawk174]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You are describing a guy who has not taken two years off of wrestling. Not AJ Ferrari.

A valid point, but I disagree. His insane work ethic would have him prepared if his goal truly is to get back on the mat and win titles. It's not liked he ever stopped training at a high level. 

[VakAttack]

If AJ could make 197 in any kind of healthy fashion (I doubt it, but playing hypotheticals), hecoudl definitely beat Brooks  Brooks was not a tall 184, Ferrari is 6 feet and just a bigger person.  I would agree that Brooks is the more skilled of the two (considering the last AAJ we saw; it seems even more unlikely he would have become MORE skilled by not wrestling).

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

If AJ could make 197 in any kind of healthy fashion (I doubt it, but playing hypotheticals), hecoudl definitely beat Brooks  Brooks was not a tall 184, Ferrari is 6 feet and just a bigger person.  I would agree that Brooks is the more skilled of the two (considering the last AAJ we saw; it seems even more unlikely he would have become MORE skilled by not wrestling).

As a counterpoint to the size argument, David Taylor is 6' also. While Brooks did look shorter, he did not have big issues with the size difference. Taylor got in DEEP twice in their first match and failed to score both times (before ultimately scoring on the third deep shot). Then again in the second match Taylor gets in deep early and doesn't score. 

I feel like Brooks will have no problem with the size. 

[dicemen99]

Haines Franek is not a tossup. It may be close because of styles, but it is certainly not a toss-up. Haines all day long.

I would say the same about Brooks-Ferrari - if that could possibly happen. Ferrari is not beating Brooks.

If you want to give those guys 1 shot out of 10, ok, maybe.

[Le duke]

35 minutes ago, Laxhawk174 said:

A valid point, but I disagree. His insane work ethic would have him prepared if his goal truly is to get back on the mat and win titles. It's not liked he ever stopped training at a high level. 

He's been lifting weights the entire time. Not getting smaller, not staying the same weight, but getting bigger. He was a huge 197 already, and had a massive cut.

Unless he gets started on shrinking his body, as in yesterday, he's going to be the walking dead by the start of the third period against a guy like Brooks, if he can make the cut at all. I very much doubt that he can do it without serious medical intervention, legal or otherwise.

 

[Jamie_Taco]

45 minutes ago, dicemen99 said:

Haines Franek is not a tossup. It may be close because of styles, but it is certainly not a toss-up. Haines all day long.

I would say the same about Brooks-Ferrari - if that could possibly happen. Ferrari is not beating Brooks.

If you want to give those guys 1 shot out of 10, ok, maybe.

This might be one of the dumbest things I've read on this board not posted by the cinnamon roll. So you're saying if Franek wrestled Haines ten times he might win one?

Same with AJ. You think he could maybe win one out of ten? L..O..L

[VakAttack]

Again, we're talking crazy on AJ because everything I've heard is that he's crazy big.  If he could healthily make 197, we're being very dismissive of former NCAA champ AJ Ferrari's ability to beat a guy who lost to Marcus Coleman last year.

[PortaJohn]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Again, we're talking crazy on AJ because everything I've heard is that he's crazy big.  If he could healthily make 197, we're being very dismissive of former NCAA champ AJ Ferrari's ability to beat a guy who lost to Marcus Coleman last year.

If we're bringing Marcus Coleman into this than we can't ignore the fact that your Ferrari only beat Evan Bockman 6-3 and lost to Noah Adams 3-2.  Brooks is a better wrestler.

[VakAttack]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

If we're bringing Marcus Coleman into this than we can't ignore the fact that your Ferrari only beat Evan Bockman 6-3 and lost to Noah Adams 3-2.  Brooks is a better wrestler.

Noah Adams is better than Marcus Coleman.  I don't think "close losses to lesser opponents" is necessarily a strength for Brooks in this debate.  I do agree that I think Brooks is the more skilled competitor, based on the most recent Ferrari we've seen (like 3 years ago) and the most recent Brooks, and I also think it unlikely that Ferrari has made huge gains in wrestling by not wrestling.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Noah Adams is better than Marcus Coleman.  I don't think "close losses to lesser opponents" is necessarily a strength for Brooks in this debate.  I do agree that I think Brooks is the more skilled competitor, based on the most recent Ferrari we've seen (like 3 years ago) and the most recent Brooks, and I also think it unlikely that Ferrari has made huge gains in wrestling by not wrestling.

Noah Adams is definitely not better than Marcus Coleman.  You can maybe argue equal to.  Adams never placed at NCAAs

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Noah Adams is better than Marcus Coleman.  I don't think "close losses to lesser opponents" is necessarily a strength for Brooks in this debate.  I do agree that I think Brooks is the more skilled competitor, based on the most recent Ferrari we've seen (like 3 years ago) and the most recent Brooks, and I also think it unlikely that Ferrari has made huge gains in wrestling by not wrestling.

Based on what you just said, I think I have to change my position. You DO get better at wrestling by not wrestling. Makes me the best that never was. Prove it wrong.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Based on what you just said, I think I have to change my position. You DO get better at wrestling by not wrestling. Makes me the best that never was. Prove it wrong.

I agree.  Aj Ferrari would've teched David Taylor in 2 matches at Final X if he would've wrestled

[Wrestleknownothing]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

I agree.  Aj Ferrari would've teched David Taylor in 2 matches at Final X if he would've wrestled

Well, I don't know about that, but I know Taylor has never beaten me.

[Husker_Du]

Levi and Franek were 2nd and 4th in the country. this year.

their best win is the same guy (PRobb (who btw, beat AOC).

it's most definitely in the toss-up category.

that being said, i'd pick Levi. I just gave Iowa the toss ups to make it as close as i can conceive (to make it as interesting as possible).

and i'll double/triple/quadruple down that AJ 1) never wrestles 197 again in college and 2) if i'm wrong about that, doesn't beat Brooks.

truly don't know what people are looking at when they say otherwise. are you watching the same things i am?

[Eagle26]

This dual could get ugly for Iowa. Honestly, Penn State could win every match - not likely, but possible. 125 (if Howard is healthy), 141, 157, and 165 are toss ups with the first two as slight favorites for Iowa and the last two as slight favorites for PSU. So Iowa’s path to victory is to get Gable, win all 4 toss ups, AND win the bonus point battle. There’s approximately 0% chance of doing all 3 of those. 
 

And in regards to the hypothetical AJ vs Brooks match, before Final X, I would’ve said that there’s a chance Brooks could struggle with his size/strength. However, after seeing how well Brooks handled Taylor’s size, I don’t think it will be an issue for him. Plus, I can’t imagine AJ being able to hang with his pace after a huge cut and not wrestling in so long. 

[scorenomore]

1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

This dual could get ugly for Iowa. Honestly, Penn State could win every match - not likely, but possible. 125 (if Howard is healthy), 141, 157, and 165 are toss ups with the first two as slight favorites for Iowa and the last two as slight favorites for PSU. So Iowa’s path to victory is to get Gable, win all 4 toss ups, AND win the bonus point battle. There’s approximately 0% chance of doing all 3 of those. 
 

And in regards to the hypothetical AJ vs Brooks match, before Final X, I would’ve said that there’s a chance Brooks could struggle with his size/strength. However, after seeing how well Brooks handled Taylor’s size, I don’t think it will be an issue for him. Plus, I can’t imagine AJ being able to hang with his pace after a huge cut and not wrestling in so long. 

I disagree about Brooks and size and strength.  Brooks trained with Taylor for the Olympics and knew he had 1 guy to prepare for who happens to be in the same room as him.  Brooks would not be as focused on Ferrari and he would not have the familiarity with him.   I would still pick Brooks because of his cardio and skillset, but I think an in-shape Ferrari causes problems for Brooks.

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, scorenomore said:

I disagree about Brooks and size and strength.  Brooks trained with Taylor for the Olympics and knew he had 1 guy to prepare for who happens to be in the same room as him.  Brooks would not be as focused on Ferrari and he would not have the familiarity with him.   I would still pick Brooks because of his cardio and skillset, but I think an in-shape Ferrari causes problems for Brooks.

In a Flo interview Brooks said he and Taylor had not trained together in over a year.

[scorenomore]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

In a Flo interview Brooks said he and Taylor had not trained together in over a year.

Yes but that doesn't discount the time they did train together.

[Eagle26]

I disagree about Brooks and size and strength.  Brooks trained with Taylor for the Olympics and knew he had 1 guy to prepare for who happens to be in the same room as him.  Brooks would not be as focused on Ferrari and he would not have the familiarity with him.   I would still pick Brooks because of his cardio and skillset, but I think an in-shape Ferrari causes problems for Brooks.

Well there’s only one way to find out, and unfortunately, I doubt we will get to see it.

[VakAttack]

16 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

Levi and Franek were 2nd and 4th in the country. this year.

their best win is the same guy (PRobb (who btw, beat AOC).

it's most definitely in the toss-up category.

that being said, i'd pick Levi. I just gave Iowa the toss ups to make it as close as i can conceive (to make it as interesting as possible).

and i'll double/triple/quadruple down that AJ 1) never wrestles 197 again in college and 2) if i'm wrong about that, doesn't beat Brooks.

truly don't know what people are looking at when they say otherwise. are you watching the same things i am?

I would say that Haines-Franek is a semi tossup, but I would say it should be a lean Haines given his youth and upward trajectory.

Re:  AJ, I just disagree.  Again, we're talking in a hypothetical world where he can healthily make 197; I agree with you I don't think that's reality.  But if he were able to make it, he could definitely beat Brooks.  People are using the Taylor matches to talk about size disparity, but Ferrari, even in his college seasons, was WAY bigger than Taylor is now.  Combine this with Ferrari's obvious athleticism and Brooks' lack of dynamic offense (as in he's not putting a bunch of points on high level opponents in general) and I could easily see Ferrari in this hypothetical scenario winning.

The other thing I would say is that people are making a lot of assumptions about Mesenbrink.  The kid is obviously a huge talent, but who is his biggest win?  I'm not saying it's impossible that he's a title contender right out of the gate (although I'd say it's extremely unlikely if he's at 165), or even a surefire AA.  I don't think it's reasonable to pencil him in above Kennedy or Caliendo without seeing him do some stuff at the college level first.  He's a talent, but he's not Meyer Shapiro.

[1032004]

23 hours ago, dicemen99 said:

Haines Franek is not a tossup. It may be close because of styles, but it is certainly not a toss-up. Haines all day long.

I would say the same about Brooks-Ferrari - if that could possibly happen. Ferrari is not beating Brooks.

If you want to give those guys 1 shot out of 10, ok, maybe.

I think I'd go with Haines over Franek maybe 6 of 10 times, and Brooks over Ferrari maybe 7 or 8 of 10 times.

Franek's only losses last year were to Robb who he also beat, and 2x to Josh Humphreys who Haines never wrestled.  He did beat Zerban who beat Haines (I know we can call that a "fluke" for Haines, bur Zerban did finish R12 only losing to Franek and AOC).

[Husker_Du]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

 

Re:  AJ, I just disagree.  

The other thing I would say is that people are making a lot of assumptions about Mesenbrink.    I don't think it's reasonable to pencil him in above Kennedy or Caliendo without seeing him do some stuff at the college level first.  

agree and agree.

AJ could. Wouldn't blow my mind at all if he did.

Mesenbrink needs to prove it

 

that being said, i'm just making picks here. and i'd take Brooks everyday and twice on Sunday and I'd take Mesenbrink next Jan or Feb. 

[Le duke]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think I'd go with Haines over Franek maybe 6 of 10 times, and Brooks over Ferrari maybe 7 or 8 of 10 times.

Franek's only losses last year were to Robb who he also beat, and 2x to Josh Humphreys who Haines never wrestled.  He did beat Zerban who beat Haines (I know we can call that a "fluke" for Haines, bur Zerban did finish R12 only losing to Franek and AOC).

Haines was an 18 year old true frosh last season, Franek was a 5th year last season. Haines has another year in a significantly better room with much better training partners (despite Bob Nichols' statements to the contrary). Haines is rolling with Zain and Nolf, regularly. Franek is/will be rolling with...Kennedy, and Caliendo?

I'd go 8 of 10, for Haines, right now. 

[BLT]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:59 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

125 Ayala dec Steen 3-0

133 Nagao dec Teske 3-3

141 Woods dec Bartlett 6-3

149 Van Ness dec Voinivich 6-6

157 Franek dec Haines 9-6

165 Kennedy dec Messenbtink 12-6

174 Starocci dec Brands 12-9

184 Truax dec Calliendo 12-12

197 AJ Ferrari dec Brooks 15-12

HWT Kerk dec Cass. 15-15 TIE.  (If Steveson, Steveon MAJ Cass. 19-12 Iowa wins.)

PSU is winning everything but 125 and 141 and those are not Iowa locks. The transfers from this off season for Iowa are not going to do a whole lot for them in this matchup. PSU has far superior recruited talent and really transfers Nagao, Truax and Messenbrink are superior as well. 

[BLT]

Hypothetical discussion of any team vs PSU is a complete waste of time.