Why do Americans struggle in Greco?

[Plasmodium]

US is near the top in FS and Women's.  Not even close in Greco.  What gives?  Too different from Folk and not enough room for 3 styles?

[LJB]

Ugh…

I just can’t right now…

perhaps after tomorrow I will unload…

[1032004]

It’s the American refs’ fault!

[Formally140]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

US is near the top in FS and Women's.  Not even close in Greco.  What gives?  Too different from Folk and not enough room for 3 styles?

Combo of

1. no knowledge, and/or common knowledge is.. lacking 

2. More different from folkstyle than Freestyle is. And the way our kids get exposure to wrestling is folkstyle 

3. Reffing sucks. Someone close to me only refs international styles now and was about losing their mind about how bad “experienced” M1s were not calling anything right and letting the bad Freco (because it was not actual Greco) be even worse than it should have been

4. Because guys who either won Fargo in Greco or have gotten high on the ladder in Greco haven’t done well in folkstyle/freestyle. And/or some have done it after subpar results in freestyle.

5. Allegations of active sabotage to the program 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

It's a timing thing. This is how USA Wrestling promotes the Greco matches:

 

Event Schedule
Friday, June 2nd
U23 Greco-Roman and U20 Greco-Roman
Session 1: Greco-Roman
U20 Greco-Roman World Team Trials
Challenge Tournament - Preliminaries, Quarterfinals, Semifinals, Challenge Finals & Consolations
10:00 a.m. - 2:15 p.m.

10:00 a.m. which time? Eastern? Central? I have no idea where Geneva, Ohio is. Is it in Central or Eastern time? Everybody shows up late for weighins. Seriously, though, about 200 registered for U23 Greco, while there are about 800 registrations for U23 Freestyle. Numbers, always the numbers. 

 

[billyhoyle]

There is next to no incentive for wrestlers to train in Greco.  You're better off being a very good folkstyle wrestler and getting a college scholarship than a world class Greco wrestler from a purely value standpoint.  So NCAAs is actively draining anyone who might be talented away from pursuing greco. 

 

On top of that, given the option of training folkstyle, free, or Greco, most people will pick the discipline that involves a decreased likelihood of getting thrown on your head.  At least for me, getting slammed on my face made me dislike Greco fairly quickly.

[LJB]

there is absolutely no support in this country for greco...

our national organization treats it like a red headed step child...

our "refs" refuse to learn it and do their jobs properly...

our wrestling publications totally ignore it...

our "fans" talk mad shit on it while knowing nothing about it...

and kids are scared to even try it because of fear and ignorance propagated by their coaches and parents...

but...

if your opponent running away from you makes you want to punch a baby?

if you love to get physical and fight it out mano a mano?

if hearing the crowd go DAAAAAAAMMMMMMNNNNN!!!! blows up your skirt?

there is little better in the wrestling world...

Edited June 2, 2023 by LJB

[WrestlingRasta]

/\  /\

It's a full blanket of disregard for the sport at the highest level, that just like anything else good or bad, trickles all the way down to the grass roots level.

The suits in CS don't want to give it the attention and support it deserves, therefore the coaches that want to coach at the top level don't give it the focus it deserves, there for the athletes don't give it the training it deserves, then those athletes become coaches and the next generation only knows it as a sport of pushing and shoving.   I said the day USAW signed on for a folkstyle series and recognized championships, the plug just got pulled on Greco in this country.   It's been dying a slow death ever since.  And as long as there is a strong push for folkstyle wrestling from the organization whose absolute priority is to produce world and olympic medals, The United States will continue to be an early round warm up match on the world stage.....most of the time....

Fortunately, we do still have a few folk floating around that get it, and understand that just like any other discipline, if you want to be the best in the world your focus can't begin in your 20's.  You're too far behind.   God speed to 'em.

#BlackFivesMatter

[RandolphTJones]

It's an antiquated style that has difficulty recruiting kids at a young age to get into. They all want to wrestle freestyle, that's what the clubs and such focus on. 

[LJB]

was chatting with a buddy couple of days ago and brought up a great point...

girls are starting to wrestle greco at the state level now...

if this continues it might be the thing that saves greco in america...

what they have done for exposure to wrestling in general has been amazing the last few years...

USAW has ridden that wave and perhaps they will be forced to acknowledge greco if the girls start giving it the attention it deserves...

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, RandolphTJones said:

It's an antiquated style that has difficulty recruiting kids at a young age to get into. They all want to wrestle freestyle, that's what the clubs and such focus on. 

if by antiquated you mean entirely representative of what wrestling actually began as, then yes...

dive in on the legs on the battle field and you got quickly dispatched with sharp pointy objects and immediately dismissed...

[bnwtwg]

21 minutes ago, LJB said:

was chatting with a buddy couple of days ago and brought up a great point...

girls are starting to wrestle greco at the state level now...

if this continues it might be the thing that saves greco in america...

what they have done for exposure to wrestling in general has been amazing the last few years...

USAW has ridden that wave and perhaps they will be forced to acknowledge greco if the girls start giving it the attention it deserves...

But what misogynistic term will you call greco if that happens?

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

But what misogynistic term will you call greco if that happens?

 

tissue?

[Plasmodium]

At some point, package rides, oil checks  and liability might save Greco and wrestling itself in America. That's a very ugly part of wrestling.  I hated and resented it when my kids were wrestling. Probably what started Greco, TBH.

[LJB]

started greco?

[Offthemat]

I don’t greco can get big until there’s a lot of money and people organized to present it to grade school kids, but it barely gets coverage during the Olympics as it is.  

[DJT]

It's a chicken or the egg thing... We need success to get America on board with Greco, but we need to get Americans on board with Greco to have success. 

What's it going to take to break the cycle? Probably money, for starters. Where's that money going to come from? LJB winning the Powerball is the best bet at this point.

[LJB]

the reality is that RTCs are the main thing responsible for our success in free...

they allow our athletes to focus on full time training throughout their competitive life span...

until there is something similar for greco i fear the trend will continue...

one thing is certain, USAW can not be depended on to do much of anything...

[Formally140]

30 minutes ago, LJB said:

the reality is that RTCs are the main thing responsible for our success in free...

they allow our athletes to focus on full time training throughout their competitive life span...

until there is something similar for greco i fear the trend will continue...

one thing is certain, USAW can not be depended on to do much of anything...

Not depending on USA wrestling is why the RTCs exist 

[LJB]

1 minute ago, Formally140 said:

Not depending on USA wrestling is why the RTCs exist 

100%

[gimpeltf]

RTC's can work in freestyle because there are so many practicing and coaching you can split them up like this. They visit each other.

There aren't enough Grecoites to warrant more than a couple training sites.

[mspart]

We have had success in GR.   In 2007 we were the team champions in GR.  

mspart

[LJB]

5 minutes ago, mspart said:

We have had success in GR.   In 2007 we were the team champions in GR.  

mspart

long before we were ever team champions in the women's style...

it was a special team...

[LJB]

7 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

RTC's can work in freestyle because there are so many practicing and coaching you can split them up like this. They visit each other.

There aren't enough Grecoites to warrant more than a couple training sites.

no...

RTCs can work because there are big donors who care about the color of their frats preferred singlet...

if someone did the same for greco it would work...

we got NMU, the OTC, fort carson, a couple of greco guys traiing at IRTC... other pockets here and there...

it is purely a support issue...

 

 

[gimpeltf]

11 minutes ago, LJB said:

no...

RTCs can work because there are big donors who care about the color of their frats preferred singlet...

if someone did the same for greco it would work...

we got NMU, the OTC, fort carson, a couple of greco guys traiing at IRTC... other pockets here and there...

it is purely a support issue...

 

 

No, completely disagree other than it would help if we had big donors. I'm in the present and it's the way it is because we DON'T have those donors and aren't likely to.