Oklahoma State 2023-24, 2024-25

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Has he wrestled any AA contenders yet?

I mean... no... that is the point?

[flyingcement]

26 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I mean... no... that is the point?

Okay one thing I was forgetting in my previous post was that Feldman has an extra year of college under his belt.  I don't think it will take long for Carroll to ramp up though and he wrestled Feldman very tough in the past (may have been Freestyle, my memory is slipping)

[nhs67]

3 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Okay one thing I was forgetting in my previous post was that Feldman has an extra year of college under his belt.  I don't think it will take long for Carroll to ramp up though and he wrestled Feldman very tough in the past (may have been Freestyle, my memory is slipping)

To be clear, I am okay being wrong.

[Offthemat]

Intermat:  “Carroll is a two-time Super 32 champion and a Junior freestyle national champion in 2021. Over the summer, Carroll made the U20 World Team in Greco-Roman. In the best-of-three final, Carroll shut out Robert Plympton 8-0 in the first period of both of their bouts. He was also selected to wrestle in a super-match at FloWrestling's Who's #1 in 2021 against Nick Feldman, the top recruit in the Class of 2022. Feldman prevailed via 3-2 score.”

[Cowboy08]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:49 PM, nhs67 said:

Brotherman... c'mon.  Why can't you answer the questions?

I am not a Cowboy fan... I enjoy them, though.  I am asking you, a Cowboy fan, how you think he fares against the 2nd tier of Big 12 heavies.  The ones he will need to be competitive with to qualify for nationals.

Not trolling.  I just want a more educated opinion on it.

 

Carroll likely isn't beating Bastida or Elam as a true freshman but those guys both have potential to be NCAA finalists.  It's not a fair question, Carroll isn't supposed to come in and be a title challenger right away.  Look at the lower half of the 285 AA projections:  Owen Trephan, Dayton Pitzer, Colton McKiernan, Lewis Fernandes, Yaraslav, Tyrell Gordon.......could he be competitive with those guys right out of the gate?  I think so.  I think he could be a blood round guy and after this year 285 clears out a lot of the top guys 

[Cowboy08]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:55 PM, Offthemat said:

Is it?  Fill me in. 

 

this is BS, JoJo beat Chandler in a wrestle off, there is nothing preferential about that.  Fact is, JoJo was a bad matchup stylistically for him and would probably beat him 8 out of 10 times if they wrestled off. 

[nhs67]

18 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

Carroll likely isn't beating Bastida or Elam as a true freshman but those guys both have potential to be NCAA finalists.  It's not a fair question, Carroll isn't supposed to come in and be a title challenger right away.  Look at the lower half of the 285 AA projections:  Owen Trephan, Dayton Pitzer, Colton McKiernan, Lewis Fernandes, Yaraslav, Tyrell Gordon.......could he be competitive with those guys right out of the gate?  I think so.  I think he could be a blood round guy and after this year 285 clears out a lot of the top guys 

I believe he has graduated.

Otherwise, thank you for your input - it is s good take.  I look forward to seeing him compete this hear, if he does.

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

this is BS, JoJo beat Chandler in a wrestle off, there is nothing preferential about that.  Fact is, JoJo was a bad matchup stylistically for him and would probably beat him 8 out of 10 times if they wrestled off. 

IIRC, wasn't it not required to be at the actual weight?

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

Carroll likely isn't beating Bastida or Elam as a true freshman but those guys both have potential to be NCAA finalists.  It's not a fair question, Carroll isn't supposed to come in and be a title challenger right away.  Look at the lower half of the 285 AA projections:  Owen Trephan, Dayton Pitzer, Colton McKiernan, Lewis Fernandes, Yaraslav, Tyrell Gordon.......could he be competitive with those guys right out of the gate?  I think so.  I think he could be a blood round guy and after this year 285 clears out a lot of the top guys 

Agree, well except for your definition of "lower half" :-).   I'd say really only the 7 & 8 spots are really up for grabs, and I'm not including Bastida among the top 6.   Schultz isn't planning to ORS is he?

[Gus]

5 hours ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

Carroll likely isn't beating Bastida or Elam as a true freshman but those guys both have potential to be NCAA finalists.  It's not a fair question, Carroll isn't supposed to come in and be a title challenger right away.  Look at the lower half of the 285 AA projections:  Owen Trephan, Dayton Pitzer, Colton McKiernan, Lewis Fernandes, Yaraslav, Tyrell Gordon.......could he be competitive with those guys right out of the gate?  I think so.  I think he could be a blood round guy and after this year 285 clears out a lot of the top guys 

Do you actually think that Bastida or Elam are potential finalists at HWT? I would be shocked if we did not see a combo Kerk, Hendrickson, Cassioppi, Shultz & Davison in the finals. 

[bnwtwg]

19 minutes ago, Gus said:

Do you actually think that Bastida or Elam are potential finalists at HWT? I would be shocked if we did not see a combo Kerk, Hendrickson, Cassioppi, Shultz & Davison in the finals. 

Maybe the finals of the Big 12 tourney. Even with it being a thinner pool than '22 and '23 the chance of either of them being in the semis is very slim. Will likely be fighting for their AA life in the blood round... and they may run into each other depending on how the bracket shakes out.

Oh and don't forget Steveson might show up for 3 weeks next year (B1G and NCAAs) if he gets a good enough NIL offer.

[Antitroll2828]

11 hours ago, Cowboy08 said:

 

this is BS, JoJo beat Chandler in a wrestle off, there is nothing preferential about that.  Fact is, JoJo was a bad matchup stylistically for him and would probably beat him 8 out of 10 times if they wrestled off. 

I’ve pointed this out like 10 times on this board and the old one but people are stubborn and just like to believe the first thing they heard was the truth 

[nhs67]

I am ready to concede on Carroll.

He wasn't touched this weekend in a manner that was embarrassing for his opponents.

I would like to see him redshirt still, to allow it to clear out.  He is looking ripe for low AA this year but possible contender the following if he redshirts.

Also Jordan Williams went 65 KG, which is 143lbs.  He isn't going to be an effective 157lber next season.

Hell, OSU has 4 legit NQ takents on the roster right now and none at 149 or 157.

[flyingcement]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I am ready to concede on Carroll.

He wasn't touched this weekend in a manner that was embarrassing for his opponents.

I would like to see him redshirt still, to allow it to clear out.  He is looking ripe for low AA this year but possible contender the following if he redshirts.

Also Jordan Williams went 65 KG, which is 143lbs.  He isn't going to be an effective 157lber next season.

Hell, OSU has 4 legit NQ takents on the roster right now and none at 149 or 157.

Also looks like Carter Young is now officially listed in wrestlestat as being on Redshirt.  As you said, I can't imagine Williams is big enough for 157 this year.  Maybe they get Franek!  Or otherwise Manibog could man the spot.

[Cowboy08]

7 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I am ready to concede on Carroll.

He wasn't touched this weekend in a manner that was embarrassing for his opponents.

I would like to see him redshirt still, to allow it to clear out.  He is looking ripe for low AA this year but possible contender the following if he redshirts.

Also Jordan Williams went 65 KG, which is 143lbs.  He isn't going to be an effective 157lber next season.

Hell, OSU has 4 legit NQ takents on the roster right now and none at 149 or 157.

Jordan Williams was never going 157 he will be 149 with Sammy Alvarez at 141.  157 is definitely a hole 

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

Jordan Williams was never going 157 he will be 149 with Sammy Alvarez at 141.  157 is definitely a hole 

I think Tagen Jamison may have something to say about that 

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

Jordan Williams was never going 157 he will be 149 with Sammy Alvarez at 141.  157 is definitely a hole 

Uh... he was never going to be 149 with VV there, either.  The kid was 152 his senior year in high school.  The plan was definitely 157 at that point.

[Winners Circle]

14 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I think Tagen Jamison may have something to say about that 

Yes, I'm hearing that Jamison is the real deal Holyfield. Little logjam situation. Good problem to have for the Cowboys.

[Michael Moran]

OSU will have a hole at 157.  I think they may try Khayititov Mirzo.  Was a small 165 pounder in juco and wrestled some 70 kg 3 years ago.

I think Carroll starts at 285.  Watched his match against Feldman, could have gone either way and seems Carroll has gotten better.  184 will be interesting.  Do they go with Whitlake or Thompson or Haas.  

125 is clearly Spratley and 133 is Fix.

141 I think is Alvarez, but was clearly had problems with weight so I think Jamison is insurance.  Carter Young I think redshirts to heal knee injury he got at Big 12.

149 likely Williams, but if Alvarez cannot make 141 not a shock to see him at 149.

157 is a hole. Best hope is Mirzo IMHO.

165 is Olejnik.

174 is likely Plott, but could they redshirt Plott and put Whitlake at 174?

184 is Thompson, Whitlake or Haas.  Not sure Haas can make 184, as more of a 197 pounder. I think given poor showing in 2023, they start true freshman, meaning both Carroll and Thompson.

197 is Surber, with Haas and freshman Robb in wings.

285 I think is Carroll.  Ducet did great for a guy who was really a third tier prospect, but not sure can move up.  

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Michael Moran said:

OSU will have a hole at 157.  I think they may try Khayititov Mirzo.  Was a small 165 pounder in juco and wrestled some 70 kg 3 years ago.

I think Carroll starts at 285.  Watched his match against Feldman, could have gone either way and seems Carroll has gotten better.  184 will be interesting.  Do they go with Whitlake or Thompson or Haas.  

125 is clearly Spratley and 133 is Fix.

141 I think is Alvarez, but was clearly had problems with weight so I think Jamison is insurance.  Carter Young I think redshirts to heal knee injury he got at Big 12.

149 likely Williams, but if Alvarez cannot make 141 not a shock to see him at 149.

157 is a hole. Best hope is Mirzo IMHO.

165 is Olejnik.

174 is likely Plott, but could they redshirt Plott and put Whitlake at 174?

184 is Thompson, Whitlake or Haas.  Not sure Haas can make 184, as more of a 197 pounder. I think given poor showing in 2023, they start true freshman, meaning both Carroll and Thompson.

197 is Surber, with Haas and freshman Robb in wings.

285 I think is Carroll.  Ducet did great for a guy who was really a third tier prospect, but not sure can move up.  

I thought Mirzo had Olympic aspirations at 74 KG?  Would he concede those to go 157 or will he redshirt and go 165 after Izzy is gone?

I still think 141-157 ends up being some combination of Jamison, Alvarez, Williams, and Sheets.

I also think Plott redshirts, Whittlake goes 174, and Thompson goes 184.

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

 

I still think 141-157 ends up being some combination of Jamison, Alvarez, Williams, and Sheets.

 

From what I've seen Sheets is not there yet.  Williams ... maybe ... but he still does head scratching stuff ... as a full time starter ... who knows but I'd like to see if Jamison is better.

Edited June 8, 2023 by ionel

[flyingcement]

125: Spratley as an AA caliber wrestler with NQ level guy in Witcraft as a backup

133: Fix lock for top five and Cael Hughes on RS

141: Alvarez is an AA threat and Carter Young wears the shirt

149: This is going to be a battle between Jamison and Williams.  Great problem to have.

157: Mirza could be a good option if he can make the weight.  Otherwise Manibog or the loser of 149

165: Olejnik is no lock for AA but as a defending all american with now a higher pedigree room and practice partners, it seems likely.  

174: Seems to he gathering consensus that Plott shirts, which would pave the way for a nice farewell season for Wittlake at a proper weight for him.  I'm saying if he's healthy enough to step on the mat, he's a lock for AA (same for Plott)

184: Thompson is extremely talented and expect him to be a top guy but then again he is unproven in college.  High hopes though if he keeps his off mat behavior under control

197: Surber seems like he's coming into his own.  Not sure where he places but could see low AA or round 12 type season

285: Carroll starts from day one and upsets Wyatt Hendrickson in a dual before losing to him in Big12 finals match.  Places 7th at NCAAs

Edited June 8, 2023 by flyingcement

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

285: Carroll starts from day one and upsets Wyatt Hendrickson in a dual before losing to him in Big12 finals match.  Places 7th at NCAAs

Ok ... that seems so specific that shirely it comes with a guarantee.  

[bnwtwg]

8 hours ago, flyingcement said:

285: Carroll starts from day one and upsets Wyatt Hendrickson in a dual before losing to him in Big12 finals match.  Places 7th at NCAAs

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. No.

[alex1fly]

I haven't seen any or heard any rumblings about Plott redshirting besides forum posters saying "Should he? Could he? Would he?" And the dude just won U23s. What would he do with his redshirt year?

I for one am excited about next year's lineup. Bunch of new dudes on the mat and as coaches. It's been a weird couple years as a Pokes fan with the whole Ferrari vs Mastro feud and subsequent lineup shifts.