Honest Opinions for 2023-2024 - Your Team Edition

[Wrestej]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Smith, KOT, and Askren have said that this was the reason he went 165 as a true frosh.  Had Mocco not opted to also go up to 174 KOT would have done a redshirt as a true frosh or had to have gone 174, because he was not going to push his (best) friend up a weight when he didn't want to go.

I want KOT to go 174 this season, FWIW, with Mocco going back down.  I want to see him take out another Natty Champ.

Weird, because Smith has never gone by wrestle offs to make his starting line up.  He’s has always been very up front with the fact he is going to put the wrestler whoever gives the team the best chance.  Shoot I never saw Chandler beat Brooks but Chandler started none the less.

[MizzouFan01]

3 hours ago, Wrestej said:

If Keegan goes up you can bet that he and Peyton have already agreed about the moves.  Peyton was one of the factors O’Toole came to Mizzou.  By the way I doubt very seriously that Jacques ever beat O’Toole.  I never seen it if it happened.  The reason Keegan went up was because that was the plan at sometime and it helped the team by getting Jacques in at 157.  Instead of waiting for 1/2 a year or a year they just made the jump then for the betterment of the team, and all the parties involved were capable.

Getting back to Keegan going up I have no idea if that will happen.  Only reason I mention the possibility is because there has been a little talk O’Toole wants to challenge himself.  Sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.  Sometimes it’s just smoke.  I don’t donate enough to the program to get all juice.  If I win the lottery Mizzou will be giving PSU a run for their money. 

I’m with you, never did I think Jacques would beat Keegan, but Keegan himself has said several times that Jacques indeed beat him for the 157 his first year in the wrestle off, thus the move. Maybe that was the plan all along, but I’ll have to take him at his word he indeed lost. I’m not a top of the line donator either, so we are in the same boat. I do hope you win that lottery soon, loved to see us battling it out with PSU. 

[MizzouFan01]

2 hours ago, Idaho said:

What's going on with Harman? He has beat some of these guys in wrestle offs and opens but somehow managed to lose the starting job last year... injury? 

I couldn’t say as I have 0 inside info 

[D3 for LU]

4 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Cornell returns four AAs, three others who have been R12, and add Meyer Shapiro to replace Yianni.  Possibly as good a result as the rest of the EIWA combined next year.

Shamelessly, randomly, and without comment pulled from the Lehigh forum:

125 Bailey/Seymour Neither will benefit by going up a weightclass. Should be Top 20 either of them. Not AA.

133 Crookham/McGonagle. Loser takes his shot moving up. AA potential.

141 Hines/133 loser and everyone else. Loser moves up to 149 for a shot. AA potential

149 Brignola/141 loser and everyone else. Top 20 potential

157 Wide open. A late grad school addition would be nice. Loser of 149 will bump up. This will be congregation of newbies trying to make lineup. Top 50?

165 Meys and possibly someone beats him. I'm of mindset that a 2x NJ State Champ is likely to have the tools. Pat and coaches have 6 months to refine that. Top 20 potential.

174 Logan until someone convincingly beats him. Lawrence had a decent year behind the scene, but didn't face any highly ranked. Top 40 likey.

184 Was hoping for another grad transfer. Wide open. Given training everyday against Beard there is upside here as year goes on. Top 20 potential.

197 Beard. Hoping he is on fire after way season ended. National Champion contender.

285 Taylor. Has clearly solidified himself and continues to improve. R12 in 2024.

Shamelessly and randomly indeed! 

 Don't you Big Red guys have some down time to take?

... like for, I don't know, 5 or 10 years or so?!? 

(arrrrgh, nit-lite, Sheesh!  )

D3

Edited May 18, 2023 by D3 for LU

[Mhlm]

1 hour ago, MizzouFan01 said:

I’m with you, never did I think Jacques would beat Keegan, but Keegan himself has said several times that Jacques indeed beat him for the 157 his first year in the wrestle off, thus the move. Maybe that was the plan all along, but I’ll have to take him at his word he indeed lost. I’m not a top of the line donator either, so we are in the same boat. I do hope you win that lottery soon, loved to see us battling it out with PSU. 

I remember when that happened, I was pretty surprised, and honestly, I had expectations of JJ after hearing that. But we all know how Keegan is, he takes that and makes adjustments. I cannot imagine that happening now. He is always working and switching up who he wrestles with, I hear about him with the 184s often. 

Harman - I don't think there is anything going on with him that is wrong, he beat Whiting at black and gold, and it was close. And they DFF when they later matched up. And like nhs67 said, he's a small 184, he looked...thick, not necessarily cut when he moved up. From my understanding, Hawks was expected to be the starter this past season, started the season with a knee clean up, there was another thing, but this is not the place for it, and he had to earn his place in the lineup. 

I, for one, hope Hawks stays healthy and has a full season next year. As M-fan pointed out, yes, KOT and Rocky did win gold where Hawks did not do a whole lot. He also had another knee surgery (his first was senior year of hs) that was put off until the return from Russia, so he wrestled a small amount of matches his second season as well. 

Hopefully Whiting has a stronger showing at U20 WTT. I think there is a rematch or two there he would like to avenge. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mhlm

[The_KC_Godfather]

On 5/16/2023 at 12:44 PM, MizzouFan01 said:

Mizzou

125 Surtin NQ, R12, NQ

anything less than a podium spot would be disappointing at this point in his career.

133 Zeke Seltzer top 10 recruit, looking forward to seeing what he can do

141 Josh Edmond NQ at 149 coming off a RS year. Back to his natural weight after filling in for Mauller during his RS. Low podium wouldn’t surprise me here

149 Mauller 3x AA has had a great career. Hopes he makes the jump to a top 3 finish to finish off his last year.

157 is the one weight we have with 0 experience after four years of Jacques. J Conway, Cam Steed will most likely fill this spot. 
 

165 KOT!

174 Mocco with one more year to try and finish above his 8 place AA finish last year. 
 

184, the weight we have the most depth in my eyes. Hawks, Harman and Whittling. All three could start elsewhere I’d imagine. Who ends up manning the spot is a huge ? Mark. Hawks has improved, but if it was me, it would be Whittlings spot. The black and gold should give us an answer. 
 

197 R Elam

HWY Z Elam

 

with the right draws, pending everyone staying healthy I see no reason we don’t finish top 5. This is a trophy contender on paper. I believe we return the second most points overall. My opinion this is a trophy or bust year for Mizzou. 

How about Mastrgiovanni out of the portal at 157? I’d think that any available 157 would want to practice with KOT every day…

[The_KC_Godfather]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:31 AM, nhs67 said:

He lost to guys they beat, more or less.  Also, I think that he is a 174lber naturally so the grind of heavier and stronger guys got to him towards the end of the season.  It isn't like if Salazar at Minny decided to head up to 197... he would still be jacked or if VT's Lewis goes up to 184... he would also be jacked then.  Harman didn't grow in to 184.

I highly doubt it’s possible or in the cards, but what if KOT goes down instead of up? KOT at 157, Mocco at 165 and squeeze Harmen in the lineup at 174. That would be solid.

[bnwtwg]

14 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

I highly doubt it’s possible or in the cards, but what if KOT goes down instead of up? KOT at 157, Mocco at 165 and squeeze Harmen in the lineup at 174. That would be solid.

Why would KOT actively shrink his body to a non-Olympic weight during an Olympic season?

[nhs67]

17 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

I highly doubt it’s possible or in the cards, but what if KOT goes down instead of up? KOT at 157, Mocco at 165 and squeeze Harmen in the lineup at 174. That would be solid.

 

2 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Why would KOT actively shrink his body to a non-Olympic weight during an Olympic season?

We are more likely to see Mocco double down.

[BuckyBadger]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:05 PM, Ivan Stankowski said:

Wisconsin, Bono and the Badgers should be top 10 this year 

 

125 - Barnett 2X AA 

133 - Rivera Should be a Qualifier 

141  Lettini

149 - Zargo  Should AA 

157 - Model Should be a qualifier

165 - Hamiti Should place top 3 

174 - Condon 

184 - Liegel DIII transfer, Huge upside 

197 - Talshahar Big things from him this year 

285 - Amos will move to Heavyweight an AA 

As others have said this is probably a best case type of scenario. While next years team could be decent to good, what’s concerning is what happens after? Things seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

Rowley was a really good recruit and is transferring out. Two other future recruits from California just flipped (to Iowa and North Carolina). Maybe most concerning is Bono can’t get any of the top recruits in state, and Wisconsin has been putting out a number of very good recruits recently.

[BuckyBadger]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:05 PM, Ivan Stankowski said:

Wisconsin, Bono and the Badgers should be top 10 this year 

 

125 - Barnett 2X AA 

133 - Rivera Should be a Qualifier 

141  Lettini

149 - Zargo  Should AA 

157 - Model Should be a qualifier

165 - Hamiti Should place top 3 

174 - Condon 

184 - Liegel DIII transfer, Huge upside 

197 - Talshahar Big things from him this year 

285 - Amos will move to Heavyweight an AA 

As others have said this is probably a best case type of scenario. While next years team could be decent to good, what’s concerning is what happens after? Things seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

Rowley was a really good recruit and is transferring out. Two other future recruits from California just flipped (to Iowa and North Carolina). Maybe most concerning is Bono can’t get any of the top recruits in state, and Wisconsin has been putting out a number of very good recruits recently.

[BuckyBadger]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:05 PM, Ivan Stankowski said:

Wisconsin, Bono and the Badgers should be top 10 this year 

 

125 - Barnett 2X AA 

133 - Rivera Should be a Qualifier 

141  Lettini

149 - Zargo  Should AA 

157 - Model Should be a qualifier

165 - Hamiti Should place top 3 

174 - Condon 

184 - Liegel DIII transfer, Huge upside 

197 - Talshahar Big things from him this year 

285 - Amos will move to Heavyweight an AA 

As others have said this is probably a best case type of scenario. While next years team could be decent to good, what’s concerning is what happens after? Things seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

Rowley was a really good recruit and is transferring out. Two other future recruits from California just flipped (to Iowa and North Carolina). Maybe most concerning is Bono can’t get any of the top recruits in state, and Wisconsin has been putting out a number of very good recruits recently.

[MizzouFan01]

15 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

 

We are more likely to see Mocco double down.

No way Mocco pulls a Matt Pell, dropping two weights. Cam Steed, J Conaway or Fisher are the most likely to man 157. 2024 Harmon and Whitting I would think make the lineup. The following year with Rocky having exhausted his time, Sinclair, Mauger will slide in. 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, MizzouFan01 said:

No way Mocco pulls a Matt Pell, dropping two weights. Cam Steed, J Conaway or Fisher are the most likely to man 157. 2024 Harmon and Whitting I would think make the lineup. The following year with Rocky having exhausted his time, Sinclair, Mauger will slide in. 

Despite me wishing he would, I conceded he wouldn't drop some time ago.

All I said was it was more likely, especially since he plans to go 174 before he graduates.

[Jrod65]

On 5/17/2023 at 4:45 PM, Pipewrench said:

Did I miss the Iowa prognostication?   

 

125 - Ayala - high motor, very good from neutral.  Fully healthy, he's an AA(maybe top 3).

133 - Teske - would love to see him get on the podium, but thinking BR

141 - Woods - favorite to win the weight

149 - Rathjen/Voinovich - very interested to see who ends up the starter here.  Leaning Voinovich with the better HS resume and full season as a college starter, but we shall see.  Going with R16 for either for now.

157 - Siebrecht - not your typical "Iowa style" wrestler.  Very funky, not scared of going upper body, comfortable scrambling.  Injury really stalled out his season last year.  AA potential, but will need to see him add some leg attacks consistantly before I can predict it.

165 - Kennedy - one of many very talented wrestlers at 165.  Going with AA, how high depends on draw as he currently seems to struggle with lanky scramblers.

174 - Brands - stingey, stingey defense.  Opened up a bit at NCAAs.  Would love to see him keep that mentality all season long.  AA in 3-6 range.

184 - Assad - If he could just find a way to finish his shots, he would be an AA.  Unfortunately, hasn't happened yet. R16/BR until he figures out how to convert once he's in on the legs.

197 - Franklin/Glazier - Not sure who wins the starting spot. Franklin beat him at the Soldier Salute, so going with the freshman for now.  NQ

285 - Cassioppi - Top 4

 

[MizzouFan01]

28 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Despite me wishing he would, I conceded he wouldn't drop some time ago.

All I said was it was more likely, especially since he plans to go 174 before he graduates.

I agree, we need the best lineup possible. Shoot for all I know, it could happen. Simply saying I wouldn’t bet on it. I could see it if Mocco was way under weight at nationals, but with two full years at 174, being fully a 174, it’s bleak. 

[flyingcement]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:36 AM, BigRedFan said:

Cornell returns four AAs, three others who have been R12, and add Meyer Shapiro to replace Yianni.  Possibly as good a result as the rest of the EIWA combined next year.

Shamelessly, randomly, and without comment pulled from the Lehigh forum:

125 Bailey/Seymour Neither will benefit by going up a weightclass. Should be Top 20 either of them. Not AA.

133 Crookham/McGonagle. Loser takes his shot moving up. AA potential.

141 Hines/133 loser and everyone else. Loser moves up to 149 for a shot. AA potential

149 Brignola/141 loser and everyone else. Top 20 potential

157 Wide open. A late grad school addition would be nice. Loser of 149 will bump up. This will be congregation of newbies trying to make lineup. Top 50?

165 Meys and possibly someone beats him. I'm of mindset that a 2x NJ State Champ is likely to have the tools. Pat and coaches have 6 months to refine that. Top 20 potential.

174 Logan until someone convincingly beats him. Lawrence had a decent year behind the scene, but didn't face any highly ranked. Top 40 likey.

184 Was hoping for another grad transfer. Wide open. Given training everyday against Beard there is upside here as year goes on. Top 20 potential.

197 Beard. Hoping he is on fire after way season ended. National Champion contender.

285 Taylor. Has clearly solidified himself and continues to improve. R12 in 2024.

I could see it shaking out like this:

125: Bailey

133: Crookham

141: McGonagle

149: Hines

157: Brignola

165: Mays or Herceg

174: Logan

184: ??? (Davis, Wilt, transfer portal?)

197: Beard

285: Taylor

[jackwebster]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:10 PM, Le duke said:

Penn State:

125: Howard, if healthy, low AA. 7th-8th.
133: Nagao, top 3
141: BB, finalist
149: SVN, finalist
157: Haines, 1st
165: Messenbrink, top 4
174: Starocci, 1st
184: Truax, finalist
197: Brooks, 1st
285: Kerk, 1st


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uggh. Gable always said his goal was 10 national champs. I'm sure he was serious, but most everyone understood it as the appropriate aspiration of a great coach. This shit Sanderson's doing is different. I'll watch it happen, but the instensity of my ressentiment is embarrassing. 

[nhs67]

2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Uggh. Gable always said his goal was 10 national champs. I'm sure he was serious, but most everyone understood it as the appropriate aspiration of a great coach. This shit Sanderson's doing is different. I'll watch it happen, but the instensity of my ressentiment is embarrassing. 

A better Penn State is better for USA Wrestling.

Get with it.  Roll with it.

[Le duke]

A better Penn State is better for USA Wrestling.
Get with it.  Roll with it.

Amen.

The beatings will continue until morale improves!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elevator]

8 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I could see it shaking out like this:

125: Bailey

133: Crookham

141: McGonagle

149: Hines

157: Brignola

165: Mays or Herceg

174: Logan

184: ??? (Davis, Wilt, transfer portal?)

197: Beard

285: Taylor

intresting - might have an outside shot at 3rd or 4th at Easterns with this lineup?

[Elevator]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:55 PM, Jrod65 said:

 

125 - Ayala - high motor, very good from neutral.  Fully healthy, he's an AA(maybe top 3).

133 - Teske - would love to see him get on the podium, but thinking BR

141 - Woods - favorite to win the weight

149 - Rathjen/Voinovich - very interested to see who ends up the starter here.  Leaning Voinovich with the better HS resume and full season as a college starter, but we shall see.  Going with R16 for either for now.

157 - Siebrecht - not your typical "Iowa style" wrestler.  Very funky, not scared of going upper body, comfortable scrambling.  Injury really stalled out his season last year.  AA potential, but will need to see him add some leg attacks consistantly before I can predict it.

165 - Kennedy - one of many very talented wrestlers at 165.  Going with AA, how high depends on draw as he currently seems to struggle with lanky scramblers.

174 - Brands - stingey, stingey defense.  Opened up a bit at NCAAs.  Would love to see him keep that mentality all season long.  AA in 3-6 range.

184 - Assad - If he could just find a way to finish his shots, he would be an AA.  Unfortunately, hasn't happened yet. R16/BR until he figures out how to convert once he's in on the legs.

197 - Franklin/Glazier - Not sure who wins the starting spot. Franklin beat him at the Soldier Salute, so going with the freshman for now.  NQ

285 - Cassioppi - Top 4

 

Agree about Woods as favorite. Just bad luck this year - he was the best.  I guess with this lineup some hope of challenging for 3rd or 4th at the B1G with some good seeding?

[nhs67]

5 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Agree about Woods as favorite. Just bad luck this year - he was the best.  I guess with this lineup some hope of challenging for 3rd or 4th at the B1G with some good seeding?

He said Woods was the favorite because the defending and undefeated champion from last year is using an Olympic redshirt.

The defending and previously unbeaten champion would be the favorite if he was wrestling.

[flyingcement]

I felt that Alirez was demonstrably better than all 141 lbers including Woods

[jackwebster]

10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

A better Penn State is better for USA Wrestling.

Get with it.  Roll with it.

I know, but imagine the seething envy that must consume the 2 -10 coaches.