Perhaps Gilman Should Forfeit Maybe

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

I watched Searching for Bobby Fischer yesterday. It's a pretty remarkable movie with a 100% score on Rotten Tomatoes. Near the end of the film, the seven-year-old prodigy plays in the championship game. After calculating a long winning sequence of moves, he said to his opponent over the chess board:

Quote

"You've lost. You just don't know it."

Then, the child chess prodigy played the thirteen (I counted them) moves that led to a forced resignation from his opponent. 

 

 

Is that where we are with the Gilman versus Richards matchup in Final X? As you know, Zane Richards beat Nick Suriano at the US Open to advance to Final X. He has improved by leaps and bounds by training in Russia and Azerbaijan with the ILLINOIS RTC. There is also a resident athlete at the IRTC named Erdenebat Belhbayar, who is a two-time lightweight World Medalist and Olympian for Mongolia. 

He was in Zane's corner for the US Open final. 

It goes without saying that Bryan Medlin, the head coach of the IRTC, and Belhbayar, are working days and staying up nights focused primarily on Thomas Gilman. Is the NLWC wrestler receiving the same amount of individualized attention?

I would guess not. 

There are other Freestyle athletes in the room that will demand scouting and coaching and weight training attention from the staff. That's not to say that they won't do a great job because they will. But will it be enough to get past a fellow who now has a 2700 Wrestling ELO rating? 

WRESTLER RATINGS LIKE THE ELO CHESS SYSTEM

I realize that international wrestlers are ranked by UWW and some media such as Flo and Intermat. What if there was a performance rating for what you've done recently as a wrestler, a rating like they have with ELO in chess. 

In the past, I would have given Zane Richards an ELO Chess rating of about 2450, which is what you would expect from an International Master. Lately, though, his imaginary chess rating would have ballooned to over 2700. Maybe not at 2800+ like Magnus Carlson, the one-of-a-kind former World Champion of Chess, but Zane is certainly now a Grandmaster in Wrestling. 

But you say, unlike Bobby Fischer, isn't Thomas Gilman still at the top of his game? Didn't he just tech Darian Cruz to win a Pan Am title? Yes, Gilman may still be at the top of his game, and he certainly teched Cruz in Argentina, but last January Zane Richards also teched Darian Cruz while he was injured. 

LATEST RESULTS

For Thomas Gilman, there was the recent Pan Am Championships where he wrestled a veteran pro in Darian Cruz. Zane Richards also wrestled him this year, and, in addition, he wrestled and beat Jakob Camacho, a very talented young Freestyler, teched the Mongolian World Bronze Medalist at the World Cup, beat the Iranian decisively in the World Cup Finals and beat Nick Suriano in the US Open Finals. 

SO, CAN WE EXPECT A FORFEIT?

Of course not. I just like clickbait titles. Thomas Gilman is a proud champion, and he will wrestle as hard as his battered body, which has had to make 57 kg for years, will allow. He will wrestle fiercely with as much guidance as his somewhat-distracted coaching staff can provide.

My prediction is that we will see three matches and that Zane's intelligence, and the skills he learned from Russians, will prevail in the end.  

Please note that Richards himself would never, ever boast about his chances or his past glories. He is very modest and humble. After big wins, he attributes his performance to everybody but himself. So, please direct any fire for the hyperbole in this post in my direction, not his.

He deserves heaps of praise for what he's accomplished, and Blessed Mother of God, I don't want to see any more of the pre-match hype like in the Flo tweet below (that I have corrected for accuracy). As for all the millions of other Zaniacs out there: LET'S GO! 

_____________________

Originally posted at the ILLINI Wrestling Blog and Forum and Beyond. Image credit to FloWrestling. Searching for Bobby Fischer is property of Paramount Pictures. 

[gimpeltf]

USAW has begun to rate wrestlers with an ELO-like system.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

8 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

USAW has begun to rate wrestlers with an ELO-like system.

I didn't know that. Thanks!

[nhs67]

You said there were 13 moves before the resignation.

You need about eight more and then I think Gillman resigns then retires.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

You said there were 13 moves before the resignation.

You need about eight more and then I think Gillman resigns then retires.

Yeah, in my bombastic way, I'm just getting the conversation started. It's important to give Zane Richards his due for an amazing transformation. It is also a mildly entertaining way to introduce arguments and facts like these that I forgot to mention in my post:

In 2022, Thomas Gilman beat a Mongolian by the name of Zanabazar Zandanbud by the score of 5-1 at the World Championships. Zandanbud went on to win a Bronze medal. Later that year, Zandanbud lost to Zane Richards by the score of 0-10 at the World Cup.

Check.

[nhs67]

25 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Yeah, in my bombastic way, I'm just getting the conversation started. It's important to give Zane Richards his due for an amazing transformation. It is also a mildly entertaining way to introduce arguments and facts like these that I forgot to mention in my post:

In 2022, Thomas Gilman beat a Mongolian by the name of Zanabazar Zandanbud by the score of 5-1 at the World Championships. Zandanbud went on to win a Bronze medal. Later that year, Zandanbud lost to Zane Richards by the score of 0-10 at the World Cup.

Check.

 

[bnwtwg]

Zane Richards will take out Gilman two matches to one and earn his long-coveted senior world medal

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

 

I've seen this type of argument before regarding Zane Richards and Nick Suriano. Very recently, too. 

 

[nhs67]

There are levels to this and, all due respect, Richards just isn't there (yet).  I wish him health and good fortune.  I just don't see it.

[Pa in Taiwan]

13 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Yes, Gilman may still be at the top of his game

The spot belongs to Gilman. Let's watch Final X. I want to address this statement above. I do NOT think that Gilman is still at the top of his game. I have great respect for Gilman, and I hope he beats Richards soundly. That said, there have been signs that Thomas Gilman is thinking seriously about his future post competitive wrestling. I think you mentioned about how he has had to make 57kg for years. This is true. He is married with a child now, and he is thinking about the financial security of his family, as he mentioned in an interview. These are mental aspects of a wrestler that can bring them very slightly below the level that you call "top of his game". Now Gilman may be able to make the decision that he wants to continue and put 100% of his effort and focus on the task at hand: winning Final X and then the World Championship. All the power to him. I hope he has made his commitment and is dedicated to doing everything necessary to win the World Championship. 

Richards has made some great adjustments. Your homerism is extremely strong. Styles make matchups, and Richards' style doesn't match up well with Gilman's. 

It should be exciting!

 

 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

7 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

[SNIP]

Richards has made some great adjustments. Your homerism is extremely strong. Styles make matchups, and Richards' style doesn't match up well with Gilman's. 

It should be exciting!

 

 

Homerism is highly underrated.

Before the World Cup, I watched all of the Iranian's matches I could find. He is probably the most physically similar to Gilman, although Suriano isn't far behind. 

I think Gilman is likely stronger and certainly more experienced than the both of them, and so I tried to find the weigh-in and match schedule for Final X.

It's not out yet.

I expect 57 kg will be wrestled sooner after weigh-ins, yet there will be Women's and Greco divisions to be wrestled on the same day, at the same site. Will have to wait and see on that.

Granted Zane is himself going to be a very heavy 57 kg wrestler by the evening of June 10, but I think it will be Gilman having the tougher cut.

As for other aspects of his style, I haven't done my Moneyball look at all of Gilman's matches during the last three or four years. Once I've completed that, I will have more to say on the clash of styles.

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Homerism is highly underrated.

Before the World Cup, I watched all of the Iranian's matches I could find. He is probably the most physically similar to Gilman, although Suriano isn't far behind. 

I think Gilman is likely stronger and certainly more experienced than the both of them, and so I tried to find the weigh-in and match schedule for Final X.

It's not out yet.

I expect 57 kg will be wrestled sooner after weigh-ins, yet there will be Women's and Greco divisions to be wrestled on the same day, at the same site. Will have to wait and see on that.

Granted Zane is himself going to be a very heavy 57 kg wrestler by the evening of June 10, but I think it will be Gilman having the tougher cut.

As for other aspects of his style, I haven't done my Moneyball look at all of Gilman's matches during the last three or four years. Once I've completed that, I will have more to say on the clash of styles.

This is the one reason I am not going to be surprised if Richards pulls one match out.  Despite one of them being a career 133lber and one of them being a career 125lber in college...

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/13245/gilman-thomas/profile

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/14736/richards-zane/profile

... I do think that after the Olympics we might see Gilman head up to 61 KG for a couple years, if he does decide to compete through 2028, and then drop back to 57 KG the year before 2028 OTTs (2027 WTT).

[de4856]

Well there’s no doubt that Zane Richards has improved. However unless Gilman has an off day, I don’t see Zane winning. I think that Gilman just has more tools in his arsenal. I do think though that Gilman will probably move on to something else after the 2024 Olympics. But I thought for sure that Burroughs was going to hang’em up after 2020, and as we all know, he still at it. So who knows what Gilman will do. 

[BAC]

I like clickbait titles and your homerism, Illini.

I think Zane has a fighting chance. We would have said the same about Suriano if he won, but Zane took it. Gilman is favored for sure but I am excited to see the match, and happy to see Zane break through. 

[nhs67]

Anyone know if Gilman actually retired yet, or no?

[Plasmodium]

Fun fact: Zane Richards wrestles in a smaller weight class at 30 than he did at 16.

[mspart]

I have to say that would not be me. 

mspart

[LJB]

3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Fun fact: Zane Richards wrestles in a smaller weight class at 30 than he did at 16.

the younger boy was at a camp that the IRTC guys were at about a year and a half ago...

i was a bit shocked that zane was wrestling 57... he said it was not fun but had a good plan...

clearly he has a good plan because he did the damn thing at vegas...

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

What I find most admirable about Zane Richards is that he had the character to shut out the doubts of other people and the doubts in his own mind. He dedicated himself to a course that would allow him to improve and to hell with what anybody else thought or said. That takes a lot of determination. 

He had wrestled up a weight and decided that his full potential could only be realized at 57 kg. So, he became determined to make that happen. 

The kind of determination that will lead to a win against a strong opponent even when barriers like illegal holds get in the way. Below is a couple of photographs that Jordan Blanton posted on the internet. It shows what amounts to a singlet grab that almost became a chokehold. From the UWW rulebook:

 

Quote

 

Chapter 9 - Prohibitions and Illegal Holds

Article 48 - General Prohibitions

Wrestlers are forbidden to: 

... hold the opponent by his singlet. 

 

 

It also happened during the final takedown sequence, but it was not nearly as obvious. You can see it in the "Storyboard" that is here on The ILLINI Wrestling Blog and Forum and Beyond. If caught, that would've been two additional points for Zane. 

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

What I find most admirable about Zane Richards is that he had the character to shut out the doubts of other people and the doubts in his own mind. He dedicated himself to a course that would allow him to improve and to hell with what anybody else thought or said. That takes a lot of determination. 

He had wrestled up a weight and decided that his full potential could only be realized at 57 kg. So, he became determined to make that happen. 

The kind of determination that will lead to a win against a strong opponent even when barriers like illegal holds get in the way. Below is a couple of photographs that Jordan Blanton posted on the internet. It shows what amounts to a singlet grab that almost became a chokehold. From the UWW rulebook:

 

 

It also happened during the final takedown sequence, but it was not nearly as obvious. You can see it in the "Storyboard" that is here on The ILLINI Wrestling Blog and Forum and Beyond. If caught, that would've been two additional points for Zane. 

Headgear, singlet, Tsargush… Nicky +2 don’t care he’s grabbing it and not letting go

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

With the ILLINI's Zac Braunagel also on the way to Final X, Coach Medlin will have to devote time to him as well. So, the super-massive attention advantage that Zane Richards had over the NLWC is now only a very large and massive advantage. 

 

Below: This is the throw that the Brawlnagel used to defeat his finals opponent. Was it an underhook and a shove? Or, maybe it was a combination of Judo and Magic? It was freaking elegant. That sounds strange, but, yeah, it was elegant. Could be he's discovered the Kung-Fu-five-fingered-death-punch equivalent in Greco? 

[Formally140]

Rooting for Richards but tough to bet against Gilman

[LJB]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:53 PM, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

With the ILLINI's Zac Braunagel also on the way to Final X, Coach Medlin will have to devote time to him as well. So, the super-massive attention advantage that Zane Richards had over the NLWC is now only a very large and massive advantage. 

 

Below: This is the throw that the Brawlnagel used to defeat his finals opponent. Was it an underhook and a shove? Or, maybe it was a combination of Judo and Magic? It was freaking elegant. That sounds strange, but, yeah, it was elegant. Could be he's discovered the Kung-Fu-five-fingered-death-punch equivalent in Greco? 

Elegant?

I’m giggling…

also a prime example of how inconsistent US greco reffing and coaching is…

That’s a leg foul everywhere outside of this country and half the time in this country…

regardless, his hand was raised so congrats…

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by LJB
Talk to text

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

5 hours ago, LJB said:

Elegant?

I’m giggling…

also a prime example of how inconsistent US greco reffing and coaching is…

That’s a leg foul everywhere outside of this country and half the time in this country…

regardless, his hand was raised so congrats…

 

The Brawlnagel beat that young fellow by even more at the recent US Open, and then there's this:

[LJB]

your "elegant" throw was a blatant leg foul...

and even if it had not been...

it was not magic...

greco folks call it an "off balance"...

 

whatever...

 

your boy has the opportunity to wrestle Vera at Final X...

wave your flag...

i wish him the best of luck...

he has a chance because Vera likes to give matches away...