Potential Rule Changes Vote sent to coaches

[PortaJohn]

Guess I'm in the minority that thinks the rules are fine and the stalling issues are due to refs not calling it.  

[scribers]

9 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Headgear and singlets should be optional.

I don’t know what sort of wrestling you watch 

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, scribers said:

I don’t know what sort of wrestling you watch 

Jimmy likes Turkish Oil Wrestling 

[Eagle26]

9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I know FRL discussed on a prior episode that it just seems odd that you earn 4x as much for a fall in the consolations as simply winning the match, and I'd agree.  

This. It’s actually 5 times as much I believe (.5 advancement +2 for fall). So even on the top side, it’s 3x as much for a fall. I’m all for encouraging bonus points, but it’s just not a good system for determining the better wrestler. A guy could go 1-2 and earn 3 points and a guy could go 4-2 and earn 2 points. In a dual meet, a fall is worth double a decision… I think that’s about right. So if they are adjusting bonus points for consolation rounds, I do think that would be good. 

[Eagle26]

My 2 cents on the other rules.

1. Headgear optional - totally makes sense for the college. 90% of guys have cauliflower ear anyway and (whether you like it or not) it’s a badge of honor for many. I don’t think it should be optional for high school because they aren’t ready to make those decisions, but if a college wrestler wants his ears messed up the rest of his life, who are we to stop him.

2. MFF is a loss. Easy choice. If it has a chance to cut down on the MFF even a little, it’s worth it.

3. Reducing scoring for consi bracket - depends on how they are doing it. See previous post.

4. Offensive wrestler must work for a fall - Please do this and enforce it correctly! It’s one of the biggest issues with college wrestling right now

5. Step out - Yes! Every fear everyone has about this rule has been squashed by the huge success it has been in freestyle. No more objective OBB stalling calls (they are all over the place), and more action in the center. Just do it and you won’t regret it.

[PortaJohn]

7 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

5. Step out - Yes! Every fear everyone has about this rule has been squashed by the huge success it has been in freestyle. No more objective OBB stalling calls (they are all over the place), and more action in the center. Just do it and you won’t regret it.

There is a massive loop hole in the step out rule due to folkstyle having actual mat wrestling.  Coaches will train their top wrestler to drive the bottom wrestler towards the edge, release, and then push him out.  We'll all be on here bitching about it  

Edited March 31, 2023 by PortaJohn

[LJB]

2 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

There is a massive loop hole in the step out rule due to folkstyle having actual mat wrestling.  Coaches will train their top wrestler to drive the bottom wrestler towards the edge, release, and then push him out.  We'll all be on here bitching about it  

you guys bitch about everything already...

what would be the difference?

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Guess I'm in the minority that thinks the rules are fine and the stalling issues are due to refs not calling it.  

No, I'm more than happy with the way the rules are now. But when you ask my opinion on a set of rule changes...I'll give it.

Sometimes it's pointless and silly. Like the facial hair(what was the rule for that one to begin with? It may irritate or hurt a Wrestlers skin? LOL...c'mon!

 

Look at the amount of interest there is in College Wrestling. One part of that is because...while the rules have changed, they don't make these wide sweeping changes like they did in Freestyle and Greco for years. People had trouble keeping up.

The most famous match was decided over adjusting your grip. I like the product now. Small changes. When Oliver lost to Stieber because he didn't get his head out but had both legs...sure, change the rule there. Those are tweaks. This would fundamentally change College Wrestling.

So I really hope they don't start with the step out. And for people who say the stalling is called inconsistently, the step out isn't exactly without it's flaws. Guys drop to their knees and half the time they call them grounded, half the time they call it.

Either way, I don't want to see Folkstyle muddied with that. I think it'll lower the caliber of Wrestling. It's hard to finish a single against someone like...say David Carr. I don't want to see a point because you just walk him off the mat. 

[Formally140]

To those saying and thinking “we should have never changed the rules…”

part of why wrestling fell behind us other sports stayed ahead and were proactive

[LJB]

13 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

To those saying and thinking “we should have never changed the rules…”

part of why wrestling fell behind us other sports stayed ahead and were proactive

I like some posts just because I know what it will do to the author…

but…

there is real value in this post…

continuing to do the same things over and over will just get similar results…

[gimpeltf]

A minor thing about the first Med F being a loss. I think it would have to be termed a forf rather than med (or we come up with a new term) as it would be complicated after the fact to decide which one is which if you are looking at the OPC after the fact. I'm not opposed and would not be opposed to calling them all losses. As I've posted previously, I'm the one when working the head table at NCAAs back in the 90s that asked for the term. It was just for purposes of clarification. Never thought of the possible "side effects" that would be added. So I'm looking for clarification again.

[Idaho]

I'm wondering if  the first med fft should not be a loss (the freebie so to speak), but all others after it should be. MedFFT to a D3 guy (no offense) at an open tournament at the beginning of the year carries weight on your record, but not necessarily applied to conference or NCAA seeding. Med FFT later in the season that are counted as a loss have more weight and teeth to it when it comes to seeding. Just a thought: what if a Med FFT caused the wrestler to miss the next date on the schedule because of the injury? 

[Eagle26]

10 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

There is a massive loop hole in the step out rule due to folkstyle having actual mat wrestling.  Coaches will train their top wrestler to drive the bottom wrestler towards the edge, release, and then push him out.  We'll all be on here bitching about it  

Fair point but I don’t think we should ignore big problems in our sport (like OOB stalling) because the solution might create a smaller problem. I think you would be surprised at how well the bottom wrestlers adjust to that tactic. They will find a way to stay in bounds if they are the better wrestler. If it does somehow become a bigger issue, we can find ways to address it such as saying zone to the top man and calling him for passivity if he doesn’t circle in. IMO, we are doing a disservice to the sport if we are afraid of every little consequence of change that we never grow and evolve 

[Cowboy08]

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I see no downside to any of those changes.  Would they take effect starting next year??

[Scouts Honor]

19 hours ago, LJB said:

i get anyone who is "less than" would hate a push out...

that would eliminate 93% of their wrestling strategy right off the top...

 

same old argument you make

and not even pertinent 

[Scouts Honor]

how about we just get rid of wrestle backs...this would kill two birds with one stone

no reason to devalue points in the wrestle backs..

and we wouldn't have near as many MFF

 

JK JK JK JK

[Scouts Honor]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Guess I'm in the minority that thinks the rules are fine and the stalling issues are due to refs not calling it.  

you are not 

[Scouts Honor]

8 hours ago, Formally140 said:

To those saying and thinking “we should have never changed the rules…”

part of why wrestling fell behind us other sports stayed ahead and were proactive

disagree, wrestling fell behind b/c it has a stigma attached to it, weight cutting, and the idea of hard work beyond any other sport. Im not saying they dont work hard... its just different...and cutting weight makes it worse.

[Cowboy08]

wrestling singlets are outdated and kids don't want to wear them.  Let's be honest it looks silly.  Kids like the UFC and MMA, let them wear "fight shorts" and no headgear 

[Scouts Honor]

3 minutes ago, Cowboy08 said:

wrestling singlets are outdated and kids don't want to wear them.  Let's be honest it looks silly.  Kids like the UFC and MMA, let them wear "fight shorts" and no headgear 

you aren't going to overcome the problems with this... we offered these immediately when they were available, b/c we had kids tell us they didn't come out b/c of singlets... this was 2008/9 or so... and not one of them came out... we still offer them. we have the same numbers we have always had... thru a few different coaches

[1032004]

12 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Guess I'm in the minority that thinks the rules are fine and the stalling issues are due to refs not calling it.  

This isn’t true in regards to top stalling.  Based on the clarification that was released, much of what we’ve complained about here is not stalling by rule (although it should be).

[LJB]

31 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

same old argument you make

and not even pertinent 

i am not sure you understand what pertinent means...

 

[Offthemat]

15 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Stepout removes the subjectivity

You sure about that?

[PortaJohn]

16 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

This isn’t true in regards to top stalling.  Based on the clarification that was released, much of what we’ve complained about here is not stalling by rule (although it should be).

You are correct on top stalling.  I should've clarified that my issue is with the step out rule. 

[Voice of the Quakers]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

disagree, wrestling fell behind b/c it has a stigma attached to it, weight cutting, and the idea of hard work beyond any other sport. Im not saying they dont work hard... its just different...and cutting weight makes it worse.

For those who feel wrestling has fallen behind, I would love to hear when you thought wrestling was "ahead".

Wrestling, particularly college wrestling, has as much notoriety, promotion, event coverage and audience ratings as it ever has.

"The good old days weren't always good, tomorrow's not as bad as it seems." Billy Joel