Hodge Finalists announced

[fishbane]

4 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

2023    Demas, CP    Arrington, NCSt    Murin, Iowa*    Van Ness, PSU*    Sasso, OSU*
2022    Sherman UNC    McDougald, OU    Murin, Iowa    Sasso, OSU*    Lovett, Neb*
2019    Lipan, Rut    Red, Neb*    Demas, OU*    Eierman, Mizz*    McKenna, OSU*
2018    Zanetta, Pitt    Gil, Navy    Heil, OKSt    Eierman, Mizz*    Meredith, Wyo*

I think those are the 15 matches he is referring to. 

[TylerDurden]

3 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I think those are the 15 matches he is referring to. 

That makes sense. I didn't go look at every opponent's AA history. Either way, it's an impressive wins list. 

[bnwtwg]

AOC gave up a single takedown all season, and that was at nationals because he thought the whistle had already blown. Surely that will get him a bump to second place over the Yianni 4x'er simp votes

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

AOC gave up a single takedown all season, and that was at nationals because he thought the whistle had already blown. Surely that will get him a bump to second place over the Yianni 4x'er simp votes

Pretty sure Hodge was never taken down, maybe no one should win.  

btw:  Hodge never drank Bud Light. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by ionel

[fishbane]

17 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

That makes sense. I didn't go look at every opponent's AA history. Either way, it's an impressive wins list. 

Looked old brackets I think Dake beat 12, Sanderson beat 13, and Stieber and Smith both beat 14.  The absolute min possible would be 10 as every semi and final win would be over an AA.

Edited March 22, 2023 by fishbane

[CHROMEBIRD]

Not to take anything away from AOC but his weight was not as loaded as 165, 285, 149, 133, etc. Not getting taken down during the regular season sound impressive but not when the field is comparatively soft.

[BAC]

24 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I think those are the 15 matches he is referring to. 

Will probably be 16 by next year.  Arrington will have a couple AA finishes at least.

[peanut]

I think the top two contenders have to be Parris and Starocci. But AOC and Yianni are also in the mix. 

[fishbane]

15 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Looked old brackets I think Dake beat 12, Sanderson beat 13, and Stieber and Smith both beat 14.  The absolute min possible would be 10 as every semi and final win would be over an AA.

In 2014 every match Logan Stieber wrestled was against a past/future/current AA; Devin Carter (VT), Zane Retherford (PSU), Todd Preston (Harvard), Anthony Collica (OSU), Lavion Mayes (Mizzu).

[goheels1812]

19 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Not to take anything away from AOC but his weight was not as loaded as 165, 285, 149, 133, etc. Not getting taken down during the regular season sound impressive but not when the field is comparatively soft.

I’m obviously biased, but I don’t know man. I’ve been in a college wrestling room and I can tell you right now it’s hard. It’s so hard to be your best in every match every year. I agree 157 wasn’t a juggernaut of a weight class, but not giving up a regular season takedown is absurd. You have to be perfect constantly against the best of the best that have a chance to be a starter at the next level. Based on what you’re saying, it would make sense for Alirez also not to surrender a takedown this year, which didn’t happen. That’s a very very difficult feat to accomplish. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm likewise Big Ten biased. Was Sasso taken down during the regular season? Aside from that outlier Realbuto match he may have otherwise been perfect on his feet, and he didn't even win the title. Or Parris?  I don't know how to find this information. But I agree that not giving up a TD is quite a feat, even Spencer and RBY couldn't do it. I think RBY was taken down in his first dual (probably more screwing around, but I digress).

[TylerDurden]

8 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I'm likewise Big Ten biased. Was Sasso taken down during the regular season? Aside from that outlier Realbuto match he may have otherwise been perfect on his feet, and he didn't even win the title. Or Parris?  I don't know how to find this information. But I agree that not giving up a TD is quite a feat, even Spencer and RBY couldn't do it. I think RBY was taken down in his first dual (probably more screwing around, but I digress).

It's not easy to find good statistics for wrestling, no matter how well resourced the school is. 

I agree that not giving up a takedown is impressive. DI wrestlers are good, even the bad ones. The competition level matters, of course, but it's still something noteworthy in the era of caution takedowns and leg diving. 

[goheels1812]

15 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I'm likewise Big Ten biased. Was Sasso taken down during the regular season? Aside from that outlier Realbuto match he may have otherwise been perfect on his feet, and he didn't even win the title. Or Parris?  I don't know how to find this information. But I agree that not giving up a TD is quite a feat, even Spencer and RBY couldn't do it. I think RBY was taken down in his first dual (probably more screwing around, but I digress).

If it makes you feel any better AOCs only take down surrendered wouldn’t have counted if Coleman didn’t swallow his brick for 60 seconds and then decide to throw it significantly later. AOC very clearly had a 2 first from the tripod position and the ref was at a bad angle to see it. Then the refs told him “nah man that’s way too late” and wouldn’t review it lol. But kind of similar to the RBY thing. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by goheels1812

[bnwtwg]

AOC's win is going to look much better in 2026 when Haines caps off his third title

[goheels1812]

4 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

AOC's win is going to look much better in 2026 when Haines caps off his third title

[Casey]

The only correct answer is Nino

[Rassling]

'

Edited March 22, 2023 by Rassling

[Rassling]

'

Edited March 22, 2023 by Rassling

[Rassling]

'

Edited March 22, 2023 by Rassling

[Rassling]

'

Edited March 22, 2023 by Rassling

[Rassling]

sorry about that folks. I only meant to post one response but it wouldnt post so I clicked it several times only to learn it finally posted more times than I intended

Andrew Alirez is my choice for the Hodge

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

I looked at Yanni's results and I can't find 15/20 wins against All-Americans in those years. Maybe they're counting cumulative AA honors of his opponents? So you could say of his 20 wins, his opponents earned 15 AA honors or something along those lines. 

*are AAs in the year Yanni beat them. He beat Sasso, Eierman and Murin twice each. 

2023    Demas, CP    Arrington, NCSt    Murin, Iowa*    Van Ness, PSU*    Sasso, OSU*
2022    Sherman UNC    McDougald, OU    Murin, Iowa    Sasso, OSU*    Lovett, Neb*
2019    Lipan, Rut    Red, Neb*    Demas, OU*    Eierman, Mizz*    McKenna, OSU*
2018    Zanetta, Pitt    Gil, Navy    Heil, OKSt    Eierman, Mizz*    Meredith, Wyo*

If he counted that, then Eierman would count for like eight alone.  AAs:

2023:  Demas, Murin, Van Ness, Sasso

2022:  Sherman, Murin, Sasso, Lovett

2019:  Red, Demas, Eierman, McKenna

2018:  Meredith, Eierman, Heil

[Wrestleknownothing]

I was going to start a thread called "Yianni's Coattails" but then I saw this thread and decided to post this here instead.

This year represents a shift in Hodge finalist philosophy.

Never before have there been 10 finalists. And never before has there been a finalist with two losses.

The stated Hodge criteria are record, dominance/bonus point rate, quality of competition, and sportsmanship. Historically, record has been interpreted as undefeated unless the field of undefeated wrestlers was particularly small (2008 and 2014, for example). But the revealed Hodge criteria this year is: did you win an NCAA title? All ten titlists are also Hodge finalists.

By way of contrast, last year only 8 of 10 titlists were also Hodge finalists. The missing two were Aaron Brooks and Max Dean. What did they have in common? They each took a loss. But Brooks is a finalist this year with the same credentials as last year.

So what is different about this year? The answer has to be that we have an unprecedented circumstance. We have a four timer who took a lose. I imagine the idea of not including a four timer on the finalist list was not a palatable one. But if you include one titlist with a loss, how do you exclude the other titlists with a loss, or even two?

So Keegan O'Toole, Aaron Brooks, and Vito Arujau probably have Yianni Diakomihalis' coattails to thank for making it as finalists this year.

The Hodge is ultimately decided by a vote anyway, and has been since 2013. And while the criteria are shared with the voters, that does not mean the voters pay much attention to them. The trend of voters going rogue began in 2019 when four voters voted for a co-Hodge to be split between Jason Nolf and Bo Nickal. Then in 2020 three wrestlers who were not even on the ballot received (non-first place) votes (Mark Hall, Vincenzo Joseph, and Zahid Valencia). There are also instances where votes can be like horseshoes where close is good. In 2021 we had co-winners without a reveal of the actual vote, but a statement that they finished in "a virtual tie" (which is synonymous with not a tie).

[fishbane]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I imagine the idea of not including a four timer on the finalist list was not a palatable one. 

It's odd they chose to remove past accomplishments from the criteria since they seemed set on including Yianni with the finalists. Seems like the biggest case for Yianni's inclusion.

Hoping they release the voting numbers this year and there is no tomfoolery afoot

[TylerDurden]

56 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

If he counted that, then Eierman would count for like eight alone.  AAs:

2023:  Demas, Murin, Van Ness, Sasso

2022:  Sherman, Murin, Sasso, Lovett

2019:  Red, Demas, Eierman, McKenna

2018:  Meredith, Eierman, Heil

Eierman did wrestle until he was 42, but even he didn't get eight AAs! haha

I think it's a tad disingenuous to claim AAs from years that Yanni didn't beat them, but I get it. It shows the type of guys he beat along the way, even if they weren't that guy at the time. 

I did find it interesting how some guys kept showing up in his path: Sasso, Eierman, Murin, Demas.