OSU vs PSU....we need a topic

[Hammerlock3]

Whats the minimum number of PSU finalists?

The way Lilldahl wrestling last NCAAs he was ready to get beat, but i didn't think that all year....MM is gonna go down for me as a top 3 NCAA wrestler ever with me...Barr doesn't seem touchable....3? Minimum? 184 is deep enough to knock off welsh.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 minutes ago, Le duke said:

No disagreement from me.

Both were absolutely the wrong call

[Hammerlock3]

7 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Both were absolutely the wrong call

its annoying how little pleasure we take in bad calls against people we were routing against in comparison to anguish we experience when the roles are reversed. Guess there is a spiritual/philosophical message in there.

@Le duke

[Ricketycricket]

4 hours ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

https://gprivate.com/6mbro

thanks.

[AZ_wrestling]

The problem is OSU’s atrocious bonus rate. Last year, OSU had one wrestler with a season bonus rate > 50%. PSU had eight. 

[Hammerlock3]

28 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

The problem is OSU’s atrocious bonus rate. Last year, OSU had one wrestler with a season bonus rate > 50%. PSU had eight. 

This will change, its a young team obviously, but its a decent question how much. Lockett is gonna be boring forever. 

[BruceyB]

18 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

Lockett is gonna be boring forever. 

I don't think Lockett is the starter if he keeps the same approach he had last year. I'd expect DT to send a message that he doesn't care how big of a recruit you are coming out of high school, if you aren't going to buy in, then they will give your spot to someone who will. Last year Dee was a true freshman and if you watched Stilly boys, it was clear that David was frustrated with the output and effort from him on the mat. I'd expect less leniency going into his second year.

I hope to see a new Lockett, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[scorenomore]

I know it might have some upsets here, but I could see a 15-15 tie.
https://www.rosterboss.ai/s/Q6xuLw9E

[The_KC_Godfather]

16 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I don't think Lockett is the starter if he keeps the same approach he had last year. I'd expect DT to send a message that he doesn't care how big of a recruit you are coming out of high school, if you aren't going to buy in, then they will give your spot to someone who will. Last year Dee was a true freshman and if you watched Stilly boys, it was clear that David was frustrated with the output and effort from him on the mat. I'd expect less leniency going into his second year.

I hope to see a new Lockett, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s interesting to see the difference in a John Smith recruit (Dee) vs. DT recruits. There’s a specific mentality that DT looks for, and I’m not sure Dee will ever have it.

[The_KC_Godfather]

12 hours ago, scorenomore said:

I know it might have some upsets here, but I could see a 15-15 tie.
https://www.rosterboss.ai/s/Q6xuLw9E

Could, but that assumes MM doesn’t bonus. And I think that’s very unlikely.

Here’s a question. What one or two transfers could tip the scale in OSU’s favor? What if they got Sinclair and VRob?

Edited October 14 by The_KC_Godfather

[ionel]

12 hours ago, scorenomore said:

I know it might have some upsets here, but I could see a 15-15 tie.
https://www.rosterboss.ai/s/Q6xuLw9E

But if you throw Swiderski in at 165 and Norman against Messenbrink at 174 I think the Pokes can take em.  

Edited October 14 by ionel

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

I don't think Lockett is the starter if he keeps the same approach he had last year. I'd expect DT to send a message that he doesn't care how big of a recruit you are coming out of high school, if you aren't going to buy in, then they will give your spot to someone who will. Last year Dee was a true freshman and if you watched Stilly boys, it was clear that David was frustrated with the output and effort from him on the mat. I'd expect less leniency going into his second year.

I hope to see a new Lockett, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Agreed on all fronts. I'm hoping to see a relentless Lockett. He has all the tools, just needs to fire off 10 shots a period every period. DT says over and over that he values how you wrestle more than how you potentially wrestle. It'll be on Dee to wrestle David's style or get benched.

[alex1fly]

50 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s interesting to see the difference in a John Smith recruit (Dee) vs. DT recruits. There’s a specific mentality that DT looks for, and I’m not sure Dee will ever have it.

Also agreed. Dee may not have it naturally, but we'll see if he can learn it.

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

Agreed on all fronts. I'm hoping to see a relentless Lockett. He has all the tools, just needs to fire off 10 shots a period every period. DT says over and over that he values how you wrestle more than how you potentially wrestle. It'll be on Dee to wrestle David's style or get benched.

How was Dee doing in the sprints in Climb2?  

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s interesting to see the difference in a John Smith recruit (Dee) vs. DT recruits. There’s a specific mentality that DT looks for, and I’m not sure Dee will ever have it.

I think Lockett has been in that room sense he was a kid. That makes me more pessimistic, if he was gonna figure it out he's every opprtunity. 

[MPhillips]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Norman against Messenbrink at 174

Not sure about this, but I believe Mesenbrink gets bonus on Norman...

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Not sure about this, but I believe Mesenbrink gets bonus on Norman...

I said nothing about Mesenbrink.  

[Yugdab]

15 hours ago, scorenomore said:

I know it might have some upsets here, but I could see a 15-15 tie.
https://www.rosterboss.ai/s/Q6xuLw9E

I think Mes gets more than a dec I do believe shane Van Ness has a very good shot at winning Vega, 149 is going to be  a different beast. alot more strength could give vega some issues Barr may also get more than a dec but this is a great dual  

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I think Lockett has been in that room sense he was a kid. That makes me more pessimistic, if he was gonna figure it out he's every opprtunity. 

If we're being honest, his current style is pretty fitting of the OKST room he grew up in.

It's a very different room now than it was three years ago.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

If we're being honest, his current style is pretty fitting of the OKST room he grew up in.

It's a very different room now than it was three years ago.

I sort of agree with that....I think Taylor gets outsized credit for in the room coaching based on his ability to pull in top top kids (often via shady recruiting practices apparently), but thats kind of splitting hairs, he's gonna get compared to guys who all were great wrestlers and had a massive recruiting advantage based on that. I think Vega and Forrest would be very similar under john smith (though he wouldn't have gotten em), a kid like robideau benefited massively from taylor (he's in the haines starocci style mold that PSU and apparently Taylor can just churn out).

Anyway I guess my main reaction is that I'm gonna give Smith a pass on Lockett being boring unless Taylor turns him around. Thats all just free flowing thoughts from my I don't mean it to contradict anything you said directly.  

[jackwebster]

4 hours ago, ionel said:

How was Dee doing in the sprints in Climb2?  

I watched a few times but couldnt see him. Idk. I guess he's not a part of this season's narrative yet.

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

I watched a few times but couldnt see him. Idk. I guess he's not a part of this season's narrative yet.

I rewatched and it was hard to tell who were the fastest guys as they cut video before the end.  Never saw Dee but it was hard to pick out individuals.  The only thing I learned is Pandas don't need to be fast because bamboo doesn't really move.

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I sort of agree with that....I think Taylor gets outsized credit for in the room coaching based on his ability to pull in top top kids (often via shady recruiting practices apparently), but thats kind of splitting hairs, he's gonna get compared to guys who all were great wrestlers and had a massive recruiting advantage based on that. I think Vega and Forrest would be very similar under john smith (though he wouldn't have gotten em), a kid like robideau benefited massively from taylor (he's in the haines starocci style mold that PSU and apparently Taylor can just churn out).

Anyway I guess my main reaction is that I'm gonna give Smith a pass on Lockett being boring unless Taylor turns him around. Thats all just free flowing thoughts from my I don't mean it to contradict anything you said directly.  

Honestly, after year 1 definitely agreed with you on the amount of praise DT was getting based largely on 1 tournament. But I was turned after this years NCAA. I do think Oklahoma State is doing a better job of coaching than any program outside of PSU.

5 different wrestlers becoming national champions in a two-year window is something that only PSU has done in the last 15 years. There are only 4 schools that have 5 different national champions over the past 15 years as a reference, and other than PSU, Cornell has the most with 7. What is happening at Oklahoma State is different. 

It's pretty remarkable.

[Simpleman424]

One thing that stuck out while catching up on the thread, that I find myself being more reserved than others, is the willingness to treat an MM the same way at 174 as if he were at 165. And this is coming from someone who’s said the past two years he’s the best wrestler in the NCAA. People are throwing out guarantee bonuses against top 15 guys in the weight and I just don’t think it’s going to be that easy.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

Honestly, after year 1 definitely agreed with you on the amount of praise DT was getting based largely on 1 tournament. But I was turned after this years NCAA. I do think Oklahoma State is doing a better job of coaching than any program outside of PSU.

5 different wrestlers becoming national champions in a two-year window is something that only PSU has done in the last 15 years. There are only 4 schools that have 5 different national champions over the past 15 years as a reference, and other than PSU, Cornell has the most with 7. What is happening at Oklahoma State is different. 

It's pretty remarkable.

Yeah i certainly agree they are doing as well in the room as anyone, I guess my push back is against the bandwagon jumpers taking a dump on Smith from the heights of Taylor's inflated reputation. 

Also I should compliment the forum, I don't think his reputation is artificially inflated on here, just like I don't think there are any obnoxious PSU fans on here now that Tbar found the light.