Will PSU Attend NDI or Schedule OSU Next Season

[WrestlingRash]

7 hours ago, boconnell said:

Get out of here.

If NDI is slumming then every match on their schedule is a few levels down from slumming.  There are plenty of reasons for PSU not to go, and no reason they must go.  But pretending it's beneath them is just dumb.

It is beneath them. Until OK St. or anyone else shows they can compete with them, it is 100% slumming it

[Offthemat]

8 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

It is beneath them. Until OK St. or anyone else shows they can compete with them, it is 100% slumming it

Their first match was against Oklahoma University.  They wrestled South Dakota State in December.  

[boconnell]

12 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

It is beneath them. Until OK St. or anyone else shows they can compete with them, it is 100% slumming it

This makes zero sense unless you think every match including the NCAAs is beneath them and slumming it.  They spend the entire year wrestling matches against teams that can't beat them.

Again, if they don't want to go, they don't need to.  But you are playing fantasy with the beneath them stuff.

[ceraIOI]

adding a superiority complex to it is just plain weird. they wrestle lighter in the first semester to save the grind for a shorter time. not because they're too good to wrestle those teams in november

[Air_Thurman]

Penn State going would be awesome. That being said ... it is an awesome event either way. Getting that much good wrestling in one weekend early in the season is great for the sport and great for the fans. If Penn State doesn't want to be a part of it that's okay. 

Penn State doesn't owe it to anyone to go but acting like participating in something like this is "slumming it" is such a weird way to view the sport of wrestling. Competing with all the top teams is not a bad thing. 

[He Rassle]

 

[GV4444]

The answer is No and No.   You may get some others that will skip next year due to the timing.  So, Rag on Cael People....

Cael, like every other coach, will do what you feels is best for his program to reach its primary goal.  The primary goal is to win the NCAA National Championship.  "Rag on Cael" folks mention red herrings like 1) growing the sport, 2) ducking, 3) the dual streak. 

1) Nick Saban, John Wooden, et al did not prioritize what was best for the sport.   College teams strategize a non-conference schedule that they think is best.  They do not schedule 3 non-conference games against top 10 teams.  The may do one, and that makes them a lot of TV money.  They pay small schools to show up and get slaughtered.  Dean Smith's 4 corner offense was horrible for the game, but great for UNC.  This led to the college shot clock.  Smith did what he was paid to do, win games. That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money. 

That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money.  If you want to Rag On Cael for not doing what is best for the sport, get rid of the prize money and see if anyone else takes a pass.  Non of the teams donated to junior wrestling associations or anything else to help grow the sport.  All coaches work for the own self interest.   

2) When you are not number 1, you have to do things to climb the ladder.  This means more aggressive scheduling. Ducking via dual schedule isn't a thing.  How many PSU guys wrestled the NWCA All-Star Classic (other than this year, due to international schedule)?  No Penn State wrestler ducked a specific matchup during the dual season.

3) Not sure how important the dual streak is at this point. 

Finally, as much as we want to see PSU in National Duals, it won't happen because Cael decided it wasn't in the best interest of winning NCAAs.  He just won NCAAs.  How can you argue with that.  The question is how many other coaches will decide National Duals did not help their NCAA tournament performance and will trade the cash for that better shot at NCAAs.

 

[Offthemat]

Did it hinder OSU’s performance at NCAAs to wrestle NDI?  Iowa?

[boconnell]

37 minutes ago, GV4444 said:

The answer is No and No.   You may get some others that will skip next year due to the timing.  So, Rag on Cael People....

Cael, like every other coach, will do what you feels is best for his program to reach its primary goal.  The primary goal is to win the NCAA National Championship.  "Rag on Cael" folks mention red herrings like 1) growing the sport, 2) ducking, 3) the dual streak. 

1) Nick Saban, John Wooden, et al did not prioritize what was best for the sport.   College teams strategize a non-conference schedule that they think is best.  They do not schedule 3 non-conference games against top 10 teams.  The may do one, and that makes them a lot of TV money.  They pay small schools to show up and get slaughtered.  Dean Smith's 4 corner offense was horrible for the game, but great for UNC.  This led to the college shot clock.  Smith did what he was paid to do, win games. That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money. 

That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money.  If you want to Rag On Cael for not doing what is best for the sport, get rid of the prize money and see if anyone else takes a pass.  Non of the teams donated to junior wrestling associations or anything else to help grow the sport.  All coaches work for the own self interest.   

2) When you are not number 1, you have to do things to climb the ladder.  This means more aggressive scheduling. Ducking via dual schedule isn't a thing.  How many PSU guys wrestled the NWCA All-Star Classic (other than this year, due to international schedule)?  No Penn State wrestler ducked a specific matchup during the dual season.

3) Not sure how important the dual streak is at this point. 

Finally, as much as we want to see PSU in National Duals, it won't happen because Cael decided it wasn't in the best interest of winning NCAAs.  He just won NCAAs.  How can you argue with that.  The question is how many other coaches will decide National Duals did not help their NCAA tournament performance and will trade the cash for that better shot at NCAAs.

 

It's hilarious that you are equating other teams skipping the event with a better shot at NCAAs.

PSU doesn't have to go.  It's not a big deal.  Part of you knows that, and then some weird other part of you spent 1000 words justifying something that doesn't need to be justified.  Why make absurd stuff up to answer absurd made up stuff?

[Air_Thurman]

48 minutes ago, GV4444 said:

The answer is No and No.   You may get some others that will skip next year due to the timing.  So, Rag on Cael People....

Cael, like every other coach, will do what you feels is best for his program to reach its primary goal.  The primary goal is to win the NCAA National Championship.  "Rag on Cael" folks mention red herrings like 1) growing the sport, 2) ducking, 3) the dual streak. 

1) Nick Saban, John Wooden, et al did not prioritize what was best for the sport.   College teams strategize a non-conference schedule that they think is best.  They do not schedule 3 non-conference games against top 10 teams.  The may do one, and that makes them a lot of TV money.  They pay small schools to show up and get slaughtered.  Dean Smith's 4 corner offense was horrible for the game, but great for UNC.  This led to the college shot clock.  Smith did what he was paid to do, win games. That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money. 

That's no different than any other coach.  If you asked any coach if they would trade a dual championship for an NCAA championship, they would all do it, regardless of NDI prize money.  If you want to Rag On Cael for not doing what is best for the sport, get rid of the prize money and see if anyone else takes a pass.  Non of the teams donated to junior wrestling associations or anything else to help grow the sport.  All coaches work for the own self interest.   

2) When you are not number 1, you have to do things to climb the ladder.  This means more aggressive scheduling. Ducking via dual schedule isn't a thing.  How many PSU guys wrestled the NWCA All-Star Classic (other than this year, due to international schedule)?  No Penn State wrestler ducked a specific matchup during the dual season.

3) Not sure how important the dual streak is at this point. 

Finally, as much as we want to see PSU in National Duals, it won't happen because Cael decided it wasn't in the best interest of winning NCAAs.  He just won NCAAs.  How can you argue with that.  The question is how many other coaches will decide National Duals did not help their NCAA tournament performance and will trade the cash for that better shot at NCAAs.

 

Penn State doesn't have to go and doesn't owe anything to anyone but trying to win (and they are awesome at it).

It always cracks me up, though, when people compare college wrestling to college basketball and football when talking about improving the sport. Nick Saban and John Wooden didn't have to worry about their sport going away. College wrestling is facing some dark times and I hope all the coaches are thinking about how to grow the sport. 

[lu_alum]

No way Carl takes his team to NDI.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BAC]

Three things should happen:

1. PSU athletes/parents push Cael to go.  The wrestlers want to go.

2. The event organizers should assure Cael that this isn't some back-door way to try to incorporate a "team component" to the NCAA Championships.  That's the guts of Cael's objection.

3. If PSU still refusal, the organizers should draw PSU (and all other top 16 teams) into the bracket, and they treat it as a forfeit loss for any team that does not show up.  (Will it count as an "official" loss?  Obviously not, as it's a private invitational.  Unofficial loss?  Absolutely.  Sort of like losing at the All-Star dual or losing to a teammate in an open tourney. It's not an official blemish but still a blemish, and erodes your bragging rights.)

Bottom line, PSU is doing a disservice to the sport by not attending.  They should reconsider.  

[moodybooty]

16 hours ago, Caveira said:

It’s 1/6 of psu’s published NIL $$$ this year.   Pissing 16.666% of your money away is never a good business decision 

They’re doing interviews in 4K in the window front of The Family Clothesline, my friend. NIL funds ain’t no worry. PSU doesn’t need to spend a competition date for that.

Make the NDI more compelling than a BJC dual against literally any team in the country and it becomes an interesting discussion.

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, moodybooty said:

They’re doing interviews in 4K in the window front of The Family Clothesline, my friend. NIL funds ain’t no worry. PSU doesn’t need to spend a competition date for that.

Make the NDI more compelling than a BJC dual against literally any team in the country and it becomes an interesting discussion.

They do better than most teams.   But they operate at a loss.   Your silly if you think it’s a good idea to toss a quarter million in the trash cause you think the competition is no bueno 

[manatree]

18 hours ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

Carl won't. He wants to keep the dual streak alive forever. 

If he really wanted to extend the streak, he could do what OkSt did during their streak and schedule the likes of Northeastern State, Central Oklahoma, and Southwestern Oklahoma, etc.. sometimes twice a season.

[NotThatDave]

18 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

No he won't. He shouldn't either. Okie State hasn't done enough to prove they deserve a shot, and NDI is an okie heavy scam fake title. 

Never heard of them.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, GV4444 said:

Nick Saban, John Wooden, et al did not prioritize what was best for the sport.   

Not really relevant since we havent really been in danger of losing football and basketball programs, we have lot of them.  What has Cael done to help save any programs on the chopping block or for D1 college wrestling in general?  

[WrestlingRash]

47 minutes ago, ionel said:

Not really relevant since we havent really been in danger of losing football and basketball programs, we have lot of them.  What has Cael done to help save any programs on the chopping block or for D1 college wrestling in general?  

Cael brings eyeballs to the sport. That is enough. 

[alex1fly]

Penn State's presence isn't needed to legitimize any event or other D1 program. Plenty of great wrestling going on without them. Would it be cool for us fans, sure, but honestly I'd rather there be more chatter and accessibility for cool matchups during the season than for appeasing PSU into attending already well-attended events. This board did a good job of calling out some of these duals this season but those topics aren't picked up by media at large and the threads here get buried if you aren't on the forum every day.

[LoserJucoMan]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

Three things should happen:

1. PSU athletes/parents push Cael to go.  The wrestlers want to go.

2. The event organizers should assure Cael that this isn't some back-door way to try to incorporate a "team component" to the NCAA Championships.  That's the guts of Cael's objection.

3. If PSU still refusal, the organizers should draw PSU (and all other top 16 teams) into the bracket, and they treat it as a forfeit loss for any team that does not show up.  (Will it count as an "official" loss?  Obviously not, as it's a private invitational.  Unofficial loss?  Absolutely.  Sort of like losing at the All-Star dual or losing to a teammate in an open tourney. It's not an official blemish but still a blemish, and erodes your bragging rights.)

Bottom line, PSU is doing a disservice to the sport by not attending.  They should reconsider.  

So Let's say Penn State goes to the National Duals and blows out the Majority of teams and then wins (or loses to be fair) to Okie State. How exactly is that doing a service to the sport?

[LoserJucoMan]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Not really relevant since we havent really been in danger of losing football and basketball programs, we have lot of them.  What has Cael done to help save any programs on the chopping block or for D1 college wrestling in general?  

How much power do you people think Cael has? You think he would be able to convince the president or ADs of Old Dominion, CBU, Cleveland State or Stanford? His cookies can't be THAT good.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, LoserJucoMan said:

How much power do you people think Cael has? You think he would be able to convince the president or ADs of Old Dominion, CBU, Cleveland State or Stanford? His cookies can't be THAT good.

JS helped save Standford.  Why is Carl incapable?  

[LoserJucoMan]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

JS helped save Standford.  Why is Carl incapable?  

Well you have to remember Stanford wasn't trying to eliminate just wrestling. They were trying to get rid of 11 teams with wrestling being one of them. I think you're referring to John Smith and I'm glad he supported them, But I don't think it was anyone in the wrestling space, now i don't know for sure but I think Stanford alumni probably had more of a hand in saving those sports teams. And if we're going to hold Cael to that standard fine, I'm all for it, but do we hold Tom Brands, Tom Ryan, Kevin Dresser and Rob Koll to that same standard? I don't know if they were vocal about saving Stanford, but if they weren't then it'd be disingenuous to only come for Cael.

[MPhillips]

8 minutes ago, ionel said:

JS helped save Standford.

Never happened...

[OMW]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

JS helped save Standford.  Why is Carl incapable?  

If that's the standard, then why didn't JS save Oregon, Boise State, Fresno State, CSU Fullerton, etc., or Gable save Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana State, San Diego State and so on?