Air_Thurman

I view it through the lens of an OSU wrestling fan, so I can't speak to people who don't care about OSU. I've learned so much about the team throughout the series. To me, it's just not clips from wrestling practice and boring interviews. You see a lot about how DT approaches leadership and also the team dynamic. I think a great example is Swiderski. I was lukewarm on the program bringing him in, especially after his early-season struggles. StillBoys has shown how integral he was to the team's leadership and specifically the development of Vega. There were also some real candid moments with Dee and how he handled the failure of NCAAs. They also go to all the senior-level stuff, and I feel like that is just content that is not out there. Again, not sure how interesting it is to non-OSU fans but for OSU fans it has been extremely informative about the type of program DT is trying to build.

100% an OSU homer but the guys I'm advocating for are national champions. I wouldn't have Vega in my top 3. Having him 6 and wanting him even lower is just not based on anything that has happened on the mat. Same with LR, I'm not sure where you rank him. He is below a lot of guys. Having him below the guy he beat isn't based on anything we've actually seen on the mat. I don't think it makes someone a homer to say results matter in P4P rankings. P4P rankings are based on results and resumes. This started as criticism towards Flo. Flo shouldn't use vibes for the P4P rankings.

I've never heard someone use the Penn State staff as a negative against a Penn State wrestler. All this comes across as being impressed with guys who lose close matches more than the guys who won the close matches. Vega and LR have a terrible record in hypothetical matchups and rematches but somehow not in the real ones.

I'm not trying to predict what will happen going forward with Duke and LR. I just put more weight into actual results than who wins the hypothetical 10-match series. Saying LR can win under the right circumstances is just a weird way to phrase it. The right circumstance being the NCAA semis? Vega isn't as well rounded as most on the list but he was also a true freshman. His defensive ability might be the single most elite trait on the list (arguably). Very few wrestlers are bonusing everyone they wrestle as a true freshman. Vega is eventually going to lose that being said I'm not sure he is going to get figured out. Stud veterans with elite coaching staffs like Hardy, Mendez and Ech had all season to figure out Vega and they couldn't. Hardy and Ech had multiple cracks at him. Mendez was considered one of the top 3 guys in college wrestling until he wrestled Vega. There aren't many guys in college wrestling with better wins than Vega.

I think Duke/Rob is super close. It always cracks me though when someone ranks the guy who won the real match lower because he loses the hypothetical match. You can not like his style but the hand waving of a true freshman national championship who wasn't taken down and has wins over Mendez, Hardy and Echmendia is crazy.

100% but I hope most people don't take that approach. I want RAF to succeed. People tuning out and not watching won't help them stick around long.

I'm sure RAF's business model wants to replicate the business model of international wrestling tournaments. Seems smart.

Because the plan in the beginning was clearly to stream it in the US. The UFC puts on shows all over the world to grow different markets but you can always watch in the US because that is their primary audience. It is not that big of a deal to just say the plan changed and we couldn't stream in the US and we communicated poorly about it.

Weird that an American company named Real American Freestyle put on a card featuring most of the best American wrestlers in the world didn't consider America a target market.

So ... can we watch RAF or not?

This is the thing some fans hand-wave. They hate when people say "grow the sport" and how dumb that is. I don't think anyone is claiming that PSU/OSU will save college wrestling or take it to the next level by itself. However, it would bring in more casual eyeballs. The more big time duals/events you can have over the course of a year the more chances you have to grow the sport with casual fans. At times, I think wrestling fans think you have to grow the sport by participation. I've never wrestled in my life. When I was in college, Cael and ISU came to Stillwater. I wasn't any kind of wrestling fan but I went. I've been a die hard fan since that day because it was an electric dual.

I'm saying the fact that some people have taken issue with what he said is weird. Of course he wants to wrestle PSU. It was a pretty non-offensive.

I find it weird it has become a "thing" and gotten some PSU fans riled up. DT wants to wrestle the best and PSU is the best.

I'm always baffeled when I see comments like this. I'm a wrestling fan because in college I went to a dual and watched ISU (with Cael) come to GIA to wrestle OKState. I was hooked after that.

Penn State doesn't have to go and doesn't owe anything to anyone but trying to win (and they are awesome at it). It always cracks me up, though, when people compare college wrestling to college basketball and football when talking about improving the sport. Nick Saban and John Wooden didn't have to worry about their sport going away. College wrestling is facing some dark times and I hope all the coaches are thinking about how to grow the sport.

Penn State going would be awesome. That being said ... it is an awesome event either way. Getting that much good wrestling in one weekend early in the season is great for the sport and great for the fans. If Penn State doesn't want to be a part of it that's okay. Penn State doesn't owe it to anyone to go but acting like participating in something like this is "slumming it" is such a weird way to view the sport of wrestling. Competing with all the top teams is not a bad thing.

So how many shots did Mendez take? I don’t care how you define a shot Vega was the more active guy in the match.

Does he though? What bad position did Mendez put himself into? Mendez hit him with a shot he probably finishes on every single guy in the world at that weight.

I honestly don’t get people who watched Vega/Mendez and thought Vega was the one who did nothing all match. Was he Valencia level aggressive? No but he was absolutely the more aggressive wrestler in his match.

Vega could use some weight but lets not forget there is like an 8 year age gap between Vega/Ech. I expected Vega to get out muscled pretty easily.

If you watched the Elam/Merrill match and your takeaway was that Merrill should have been DQ'd for stalling you are 100% biased towards Elam.

Imagine before yesterday saying OSU would win 7 out of 10 weights, all the tossups and then say OSU fans should be concerned by the performance.

Guys of Welsh’s caliber just don’t “show up” places without involvement from the head coach. You think Welsh isn’t getting a dime in scholarship/NIL money?

Askren got to redshirt and Chris got yanked out of redshirt his freshman year because of an injury. If Askren had to go as a true freshman this looks a ton different. And again, the Hodge was a different award back then. It wasn’t for the best wrestler in college. It went to the best pinner. I will never argue that Chris was a better pinner than Ben. He was just the better wrestler, as evidence by the fact they wrestled a ton and Chris dominated him. I’m honestly trying to remember another instance where one wrestler dominated another so thoroughly and people tried to argue the one who always lost was better.

They wrestled a ton and Askren absolutely beat him once. It is well known. That is why I said 90%.