Iowa

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, boconnell said:

They had a decent year to preseason expectations.  From Flo Nov 11 rankings.

Peterson, Ayala, Williams, Kennedy, and Ferrari dropped.  Endene wasn't ranked on Nov 11 but was 8th on Nov 17.  Bailey and Block improved from the initial ranking.  Caliendo and Keuter matched their preseason ranking.  So that's 50% underachieving, 20% matching, 20% matching, and whatever you want to call Endene.  

It's a decent year overall where they were really bad in the regular season and then rebounded almost to where they started in the NCAAs.  

The problem is that their preseason expectations should be unacceptable for Iowa..

I don't know if any coaches would actually do a worse job than TnT of recruiting if given Iowa's resources. There certainly are many coaches who do a better job with less.

This isn't directed at you, just more of an add-on to your point.

[mr.nonothingatall]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

 

I don't know if any coaches would actually do a worse job than TnT of recruiting if given Iowa's resources. There certainly are many coaches who do a better job with less.

[LoserJucoMan]

13 hours ago, BruceyB said:

The problem is that their preseason expectations should be unacceptable for Iowa..

I don't know if any coaches would actually do a worse job than TnT of recruiting if given Iowa's resources. There certainly are many coaches who do a better job with less.

This isn't directed at you, just more of an add-on to your point.

What do you think it is? Are they turning guys off during the recruitment trip or are top prospects just wary of Iowa in general? The fact that Iowa has had at least 1 finalist the past 30 years should be enough to consistently bring in some national level high schoolers. I'm surprised Spencer Lee didn't give them a recruiting surge

[mr.nonothingatall]

49 minutes ago, LoserJucoMan said:

What do you think it is? Are they turning guys off during the recruitment trip or are top prospects just wary of Iowa in general? The fact that Iowa has had at least 1 finalist the past 30 years should be enough to consistently bring in some national level high schoolers. I'm surprised Spencer Lee didn't give them a recruiting surge

He probably would have and still does, obviously Spencer is amazing for the hawks, but he isn't a super outgoing type. He also isn't the one out there doing the recruiting, still the coaches job. I'm sure if the COVID year was wrestled iowa likely would have won another team title and recruiting would have been better still. Tom and Terry get good recruits but Iowa never keeps them healthy. Spencer is a shining example of that. Guys who were never healthy at iowa. Kemerer, spencer, eirman, parco, teemer, marinelli, keuter, angelo, Nasir, block, petersen, murin, nelson brands... I mean this goes on....

Guys that stay healthy at iowa. Caliendo, Gabe Arnold, PK, Kaleb young, abe assad, desanto (for the most part), cassioppi, warner, lugo.

Guys who were injured for PSU. nagua, starocci, kerk. honestly. In recent years it just isn't even comparable.

Granted these are all just off the top of my head so I know I'm missing plenty of guys.

The other issue is the hype of some of the recruits. Flo and other agencies had kueter and Angelo and deluca and every iowa recruit as the second coming. They are great wrestlers but lots of times they are build way up compared to other schools who are doing better at recruiting and no one talks about them because they are not names Iowa or Penn state. 

Also Tom and Terry aren't exactly what a teenager considers relatable I'm sure. The closest coach to there age is morningstar. His highest accolade??? Maybe a world team. A team championship. Big ten champion.  Other schools are sending world medalists and RECENT Olympic team members to the doors and having more success.

And if you read this all sorry, I no nothing 

[Caveira]

41 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

Guys who were injured for PSU. nagua, starocci, kerk. honestly. In recent years it just isn't even comparable.

Forgot sauriano , beard, Shakur Rasheed, kasak, Svn missed a full season, Gary steen, Jarod Verkleeren, Vincenzo Joseph 

[mr.nonothingatall]

20 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Forgot sauriano , beard, Shakur Rasheed, kasak, Svn missed a full season, Gary steen, Jarod Verkleeren, Vincenzo Joseph 

Like I said in the post I missed a ton of guys. For a while there I would say PSU 125ers didn't count simply because of the curse. But I would still say they keep a healthy roster than Iowa on average. So does okie state. 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

Like I said in the post I missed a ton of guys. For a while there I would say PSU 125ers didn't count simply because of the curse. But I would still say they keep a healthy roster than Iowa on average. So does okie state. 

Depth plays a role there.   Prolly more than the accusations of Over training 

[mr.nonothingatall]

I would agree. I don't think it is from overtraining I think Iowa just isn't as good positionally and gets injured more often. I honestly thing they don't do any scrambling in the room because of issues they have had with injury. 

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Depth plays a role there.   Prolly more than the accusations of Over training 

 

[LoserJucoMan]

1 hour ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

He probably would have and still does, obviously Spencer is amazing for the hawks, but he isn't a super outgoing type. He also isn't the one out there doing the recruiting, still the coaches job. I'm sure if the COVID year was wrestled iowa likely would have won another team title and recruiting would have been better still. Tom and Terry get good recruits but Iowa never keeps them healthy. Spencer is a shining example of that. Guys who were never healthy at iowa. Kemerer, spencer, eirman, parco, teemer, marinelli, keuter, angelo, Nasir, block, petersen, murin, nelson brands... I mean this goes on....

Guys that stay healthy at iowa. Caliendo, Gabe Arnold, PK, Kaleb young, abe assad, desanto (for the most part), cassioppi, warner, lugo.

Guys who were injured for PSU. nagua, starocci, kerk. honestly. In recent years it just isn't even comparable.

Granted these are all just off the top of my head so I know I'm missing plenty of guys.

The other issue is the hype of some of the recruits. Flo and other agencies had kueter and Angelo and deluca and every iowa recruit as the second coming. They are great wrestlers but lots of times they are build way up compared to other schools who are doing better at recruiting and no one talks about them because they are not names Iowa or Penn state. 

Also Tom and Terry aren't exactly what a teenager considers relatable I'm sure. The closest coach to there age is morningstar. His highest accolade??? Maybe a world team. A team championship. Big ten champion.  Other schools are sending world medalists and RECENT Olympic team members to the doors and having more success.

And if you read this all sorry, I no nothing 

Interesting points and that kind of goes into the next thing that surprises me: where the hell are all the alumni?

No disrespect to Morningstar but he doesn’t have the accolades some of the other alumni have. People like metcalf, St. John, kemerer, cassiopi, Real Woods they’re all at other programs. Maybe Iowa’s biggest problem is not being able to retain their elite alumni? Or maybe they should start paying to have other people at the program?
 

I know they have Marinelli, Daniel Dennis (which killed the Tony Ramos relationship), Lee, Desanto and I think that’s about it. It’s like they graduate and can’t wait to get the hell out of there.

and before Caviera says anything yes im aware beau bartlett left because of bullying, starocci was booted due to scandal, Aaron brooks popped for peds, kerkvliet is at Lehigh (which probably would’ve helped Marisola) and mark hall is at Oklahoma.

Penn state still has Zain, nick lee, Roman bravo young, Bo nickal, Jake Varner (from the ISU days) and on top of that has dake and Snyder.

[mr.nonothingatall]

8 minutes ago, LoserJucoMan said:

Interesting points and that kind of goes into the next thing that surprises me: where the hell are all the alumni?

No disrespect to Morningstar but he doesn’t have the accolades some of the other alumni have. People like metcalf, St. John, kemerer, cassiopi, Real Woods they’re all at other programs. Maybe Iowa’s biggest problem is not being able to retain their elite alumni? Or maybe they should start paying to have other people at the program?

They have some alums like you says. At the end of the day Tom and Terry have burned a lot of bridges with alumni. Also they have recruited some odd cats. Lots of guys who went to Iowa are not the rooted type of guys that want to stay in one place. 

To answer your question tho, I think a lot of it has to do with them being driven out, and how stagnant the assist coaching positions are. Recent years you see kemdawg went to mn, big tone to Wisconsin. Eirman left (after staying for awhile) there just isn't anywhere for them to fit in. Lots of the big name alums just don't get along with TNT, matcalf, ramos, gilman....

But they have one that makes up for all of them. Royce alger

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

They have some alums like you says.

no?

15 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

 At the end of the day Tom and Terry have burned a lot of bridges with alumni.

no!

16 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

Also they have recruited some odd cats.

no 

.....

17 minutes ago, mr.nonothingatall said:

But they have one that makes up for all of them. Royce alger

no 

[mr.nonothingatall]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

no?

no!

no 

.....

no 

[BruceyB]

4 hours ago, LoserJucoMan said:

What do you think it is? Are they turning guys off during the recruitment trip or are top prospects just wary of Iowa in general? The fact that Iowa has had at least 1 finalist the past 30 years should be enough to consistently bring in some national level high schoolers. I'm surprised Spencer Lee didn't give them a recruiting surge

I have heard that Iowa's in the room process isn't as hardnosed as the general public would think, but I imagine it has a lot to do with Tom and Terry's personality not vibing with recruits. They come off as very old school. They are high intensity all the time. Of pretty much any D1 wrestling coach, I would say that Tom and Terry would be about my very lost pick to grab a drink and hang out with. I think the way of approaching wrestling that most of us grew up in is antiquated and, largely thanks to PSU, younger generations have learned that you can make the process more fun and still have success.

[boconnell]

21 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I have heard that Iowa's in the room process isn't as hardnosed as the general public would think, but I imagine it has a lot to do with Tom and Terry's personality not vibing with recruits. They come off as very old school. They are high intensity all the time. Of pretty much any D1 wrestling coach, I would say that Tom and Terry would be about my very lost pick to grab a drink and hang out with. I think the way of approaching wrestling that most of us grew up in is antiquated and, largely thanks to PSU, younger generations have learned that you can make the process more fun and still have success.

Yep.  It's probably more perception than reality.  But there is zero chance they change the perception.  

[Caveira]

59 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I have heard that Iowa's in the room process isn't as hardnosed as the general public would think, but I imagine it has a lot to do with Tom and Terry's personality not vibing with recruits. They come off as very old school. They are high intensity all the time. Of pretty much any D1 wrestling coach, I would say that Tom and Terry would be about my very lost pick to grab a drink and hang out with. I think the way of approaching wrestling that most of us grew up in is antiquated and, largely thanks to PSU, younger generations have learned that you can make the process more fun and still have success.

Y’all will find me a team, I’m sure  of it.  Find me a team Other than psu that scored more NCAA team points other than Iowa over let’s say the last 10 years or so?

[juniorvarsity]

19 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Y’all will find me a team, I’m sure  of it.  Find me a team Other than psu that scored more NCAA team points other than Iowa over let’s say the last 10 years or so?

I thought this was interesting so I asked AI.

Cumulative team scores and average team placement from 2016 through 2026 :

1. Penn State – 1,462 points, average team placement 1.1
2. Iowa – 877 points, average team placement 3.5
3. Ohio State – 742 points, average team placement 5.3
4. Oklahoma State – 673.5 points, average team placement 5.9
5. Nebraska – 607 points, average team placement 7.5
6. Michigan – 600 points, average team placement 6.2
7. Cornell – 488.5 points, average team placement 7.0
8. Missouri – 462.5 points, average team placement 8.1
9. Virginia Tech – 358.5 points, average team placement 8.6
10. Arizona State – 303 points, average team placement 8.6

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

I thought this was interesting so I asked AI.

Cumulative team scores and average team placement from 2016 through 2026 :

1. Penn State – 1,462 points, average team placement 1.1
2. Iowa – 877 points, average team placement 3.5
3. Ohio State – 742 points, average team placement 5.3
4. Oklahoma State – 673.5 points, average team placement 5.9
5. Nebraska – 607 points, average team placement 7.5
6. Michigan – 600 points, average team placement 6.2
7. Cornell – 488.5 points, average team placement 7.0
8. Missouri – 462.5 points, average team placement 8.1
9. Virginia Tech – 358.5 points, average team placement 8.6
10. Arizona State – 303 points, average team placement 8.6

Tks.  So by a comfortable margin.  Iowa is the second best team over the last decade.   I thought they were imploding. Can’t recruit.  Can’t even field a team cause they’re so injured bla bla bla…. 
 

[BruceyB]

14 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Y’all will find me a team, I’m sure  of it.  Find me a team Other than psu that scored more NCAA team points other than Iowa over let’s say the last 10 years or so?

Do you realize how asinine using results from 10 years ago is to demonstrate the current state of a program? Let's look at the last 5 years.

2022: 4th (64 pts)

2023: 2nd (82.5 pts)

2024: 5th (67 pts)

2025: 4th (81 pts)

2026: 4th (92.5)

Their second place point total in 2023 wouldn't have even got them a trophy this season. If you want to talk about the last 10 years, how about the fact that they have only put 3 guys on the top of the podium since 2014, and one of them was a transfer that had already placed 3rd multiple times. 

Now play out this thought exercise with me: You are a recruit. You don't want to be an AA, you want to win a national title. In the last 10 years, how many teams have as many or more different national champions in the last ten tournaments?

[Hammerlock3]

any word on staff turnover? 

[Caveira]

22 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Do you realize how asinine using results from 10 years ago is to demonstrate the current state of a program? Let's look at the last 5 years.

2022: 4th (64 pts)

2023: 2nd (82.5 pts)

2024: 5th (67 pts)

2025: 4th (81 pts)

2026: 4th (92.5)

Their second place point total in 2023 wouldn't have even got them a trophy this season. If you want to talk about the last 10 years, how about the fact that they have only put 3 guys on the top of the podium since 2014, and one of them was a transfer that had already placed 3rd multiple times. 

Now play out this thought exercise with me: You are a recruit. You don't want to be an AA, you want to win a national title. In the last 10 years, how many teams have as many or more different national champions in the last ten tournaments?

A running 10 years is a running 10 years.  Who besides psu is better than Iowa 

 

[mr.nonothingatall]

17 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

any word on staff turnover? 

Not yet, I've been checking the roster daily. I'm pretty sure at this point they are likely keeping telford. I feel like they would have made the decision by now

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

A running 10 years is a running 10 years.  Who besides psu is better than Iowa 

 

If this is what helps you sleep at night. These current recruits don't care about what was happening at Iowa when they were 7. They probably don't care that Iowa won a National Title when they were 12.

I hope Iowa's performance over the last 10 years helps fill the 5 holes in their line-up.

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

If this is what helps you sleep at night. These current recruits don't care about what was happening at Iowa when they were 7. They probably don't care that Iowa won a National Title when they were 12.

I hope Iowa's performance over the last 10 years helps fill the 5 holes in their line-up.

I don’t know that your an authority on what recruits want.  given no one over a decade is better than iowa other than psu it tells me recruits do like to go there and on average do better than everyone not named psu

also.  Not sure Iowa haters are the ones who should be in charge of Iowa and their recruits.  But that’s cool 

Edited March 29 by Caveira

[Hammerlock3]

"as you know at this level, you can make big improvements very fast"

[juniorvarsity]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

Do you realize how asinine using results from 10 years ago is to demonstrate the current state of a program? Let's look at the last 5 years.

2022: 4th (64 pts)

2023: 2nd (82.5 pts)

2024: 5th (67 pts)

2025: 4th (81 pts)

2026: 4th (92.5)

Their second place point total in 2023 wouldn't have even got them a trophy this season. If you want to talk about the last 10 years, how about the fact that they have only put 3 guys on the top of the podium since 2014, and one of them was a transfer that had already placed 3rd multiple times. 

Now play out this thought exercise with me: You are a recruit. You don't want to be an AA, you want to win a national title. In the last 10 years, how many teams have as many or more different national champions in the last ten tournaments?

Last 5 years 

1. Penn State – 800 points, average team placement 1.0

2. Iowa – 397 points, average team placement 3.6

3. Oklahoma State – 390 points, average team placement 4.0

4. Nebraska – 332 points, average team placement 4.8

5. Ohio State – 270 points, average team placement 6.4

6. Michigan – 260 points, average team placement 6.4

7. Cornell – 199 points, average team placement 7.8

8. Arizona State – 185.5 points, average team placement 8.2

9. Virginia Tech – 165.5 points, average team placement 8.6

10. NC State – 155.5 points, average team placement 8.8