scourge165

Well, we used to practice it a whole lot, but it's HS, there are some very uncoordinated guys but if you're running with the ball...what's the difference between a punch in the arm vs a helmet or anything else hitting your arms. It's cool now how a lot of players, DBs especially, but all defenders...are taking striking classes to get better at thowing punches to create fumbles. The old Peanut Tillman, Charles Woodson move is becoming far more common place.

Yeah...just to be clear, I was talking about two different issues as they addressed BOTH throwing the headgear, etc...and then 48 hours to review(right?)... I suppose thinking back, I used to ref kids Football...and I'd do it with HS officials. We were a good team, we played a top 10 team in the Country(there'd have gotten beaten by 4-5TDs by at least 15 teams in the big 3 states, Cali, Florida and Texas). Big Rivalry game... and our DE gets ejected. I was playing OLB. He was dumbfounded. They said he threw a punch. So the next day, I'm doing a game with these two refs(it was a married couple that were comically bad at their job) and I did it with another guy on the team. They described it, he showed them a rip through and they said, "yes, that's exactly it," and then commented he "punched the RB on the game play." So...rip move with a fist and trying to punch the ball out. We both told them how...common that was and legal and they disagreed. And I don't know what happened. I think he COULD have gotten another game, but maybe the post-game write up(the refs have to review the game) may have proven it was an awful call. Anyway, down 16-0 at half, opening half 60 yard KR(would have been to the house, but our KR was slow as hell...damn good looking and brilliant when discussing Wrestling/Politics, but 4.80 speed...hand timed so..ya know, 4.85). Anyway, fun game, great comeback, clueless refs and...that's the story.

Eh, there's always a few weak brackets at the S32.

Saitiev didn't even appear tall, he just had...INSANE balance, hips and a feel for Wrestling that may be unprecedented. He Wrestled...85KG I believe it was and he weighted about 80KG at one WC. As for the best ever, I'd throw Sadulaev into that group and I will die on that hill, but I still think what makes this sport great is you can reach the top no matter your build. While I believe Lillendahl is a massive underdog and...doesn't really have a chance vs Lee, he's on a trajectory to be an Olympian or World Team member...yet they have very different builds.

Yeah...that's kinda wild, isn't it? I've seen him listed at 5'7-5'8. I'd be inclined to go with that 5'7. Not that I've held a tape measure up to him, but I have been in the vicinity of Brooks...and Cael for that matter(again...not knowing either) and Brooks was short. A few inches(At least) shorter than Starocci who I'd put at...~5'10, 5'9. I would think the ideal size, height would be ~6'2 or so at 184-197. Though length is more important, but I feel like I'm being proven wrong here. Taylor was a bit taller as far as I can tell. Burroughs is the ideal build though. Thick, big hips, core and long arms. So I don't think the height matters so much as the length. Hard to tell what Dake is(I'd GUESS 5'9, but I would just be guessing). I think Snyder has a bad build relatively speaking. I think it makes Wrestling Edit-Tazhudinov and Sadulaev particularly tough. Of course...I have zero Olympic or World Medals, so...what do I know...

I looked up top 30 best times and there was ONE that was not Ledecky(I believe it omits one of Summer McIntosh's times for whatever reason). But then you go to top 50 times...EVER and she's got at least 40 of them. We're been pretty lucky to see some...historically great athletes. Phelps is great, Ladecky's had preternatural endurance. Kinda like Simone Biles or...Usain Bolt. There are a few, but not many athletes who are just so incredibly dominant, it's hard to wrap your head around. I grew up with my Grandparents on a lack and my parents had a pool(my Uncle did excavating, a friend of the family actually did lining, another did concrete)...so I swam a LOT growing up. For fun, to work out, whatever. The thought of swimming a MILE or even a half of mile here like this...is mind blowing. And while it SHOULD be obvious it's not just natural talent, I believe she's never once had a beer and has this super strict diet. I'm not a swimming fan just as I'm not a huge Gymnastics fan, but how can you not respect someone who is as dedicated and as talented as some of these athletes and love watching them compete? I would LOVE to see each of them in the 2028 Olympics. I don't know if that's feasible as it pertains to Biles(now THAT is a sport you need a pretty specific body type).

I would think Cael Sanderson(whom I believe to be taller than the 6') or Tazhudinov...who is 6'3. Also, how much different is Chance's build from Brooks? Brooks is the same height, but he's going to 97KG.

Chris Bono, Aaron Brooks, I wouldn't say Starocci was particularly long, Kyle Snyder. I think that was a great point, Wrestling is unique because ANYONE of any body type can have success. Cael or Brooks at 197... Tommy Rowlands or Kyle Snyder at HWT...Dean Hamiti or Mark Schultz...Spencer Lee or Stephan Abas and I could keep going, but the point seems obvious. I would say Marstellar winning a spot on the world team and Pletcher being the overwhelming favorite in '20...make them not winning the outliers, not proof they faught their body style.

Fair enough! If that's the metric we're using, then Askren was successful. Though...he was also a great boxer by this metric. The quotes are appropriate there as that is DEFINITELY what I said!

I have no clue, maybe he's on what a lot of people go on around 50. Some type of HRT or whatever. A PED, but otherwise legal. My point was the guy has ALWAYS had an incredible gas tank and that...I would bet money his conditioning, his cardio is still likely elite. I don't think when he was in the UFC, he was ever out of shape or gassing. Dana White called him a "bag of milk." So he's never been the biggest or most muscular and that was true when he was the most dominant Wrestler in College for two seasons and bumping up and Wrestling All Americans at 184, but he was NEVER the guy gassing...IMO.

You really think the requirement during the 30 second tie breakers should be working for a fall? The point of this sport is to control another man. I think a 30 second ride out where you're just trying to prevent them from escaping is fine. If I had my preference, you'd have OT go 1 minute neutral, each get 30 second goes and then repeat, but that takes too much time I guess. But I don't think you need to make the criteria for stalling the exact same in 30 second tie breakers.

THIS is a really good idea...IMO. I don't like this at all. You're effectively reward the top guy. You eliminate that escape point. I'd propose offering the option. You can EITHER bring them up to their feet, or they can stay down to work for the 1. If you bring them up without giving a point...I guess it's situational, but it'd seem to benefit the top Wrestler.

I wouldn't think you could do that in the tie breaker. The standard for stalling is different. I mean, taking the 4 seconds or 5 seconds off when you're in on a leg or whatever, fine. That could make a substantial difference. But just like riding parallel on top or not working for the turn... the ride out rules are not the same as the first 7 minutes(though they keep changing them, someone could fact check me on that). I don't like this at all. I couldn't breath as well with one in. At least not as well. I just...didn't like them. So...you're forcing them to take an to wear protective equipment for their mouth...which is new, but taking away the head gear? Which... fine, it's stupid, I was stupid and the 7 minutes is a TINY fraction of how much you actually Wrestle, but...it's a silly contradiction if implemented. Can anyone recall a match in which this made any type of difference? Seems to me they usually just stop them both. If someone is clearly initiating, fine, but otherwise...good change but kinda pointless. Again, is there are lot of wrongly penalized "flagrant misconduct" penalties? I'm asking, is that an issue? And the penalizing Wrestlers for unsportsmanlike conduct for throwing, tossing, spiking or sliding any piece of equipment? "Sliding/Tossing?" That's...moronic. So if I toss my headgear to my coach(I'm still wrestling and make Bo Nickal's cut look like child's play in this scenario) I am penalized and...then I get 48 hours to review the stupid penalty? It seems like the rules in place are sufficient. If you throw a fit, you'll cost your team AS IS. This is just looking to solve an issue that doesn't SEEM to exist in my opinion. I'll admit though... don't watch that many duels. Maybe 2-3 a week and I go to maybe 10 a year. So this could be a larger issue I suppose?

I am at a loss. I need to re-examine my entire belief system, everything I've done in my life and plan on doing in my life... I just watched that and thought..."that's a good take...by Brandon Schaub," the man who gave us the ICONIC Gringo Papi?!? Rogan must have said this a day or two earlier... that's the only plausible explanation.

Not, I'm not "admitting" anything. I'm repeating what Herb Dean said. Even the person who brought up that as his top achievement put "Beat Lawler" in quotes. For arguments sake what happens if it's not stopped? I don't know dude, they keep fighting. I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I'm simply saying if you're looking at Askren's career, pointing to the win over Lawler, a win in which the Ref apologized, it's not the strongest argument. I don't have a personal opinion on when or if you stop that. Herb Dean said he didn't see the thumbs up, Lawler said he yelled he was good. It's all TOTALLY moot. Again, to recap, I mentioned the TYPES of Wrestlers I thought would be good fits in MMA and those who wouldn't, someone ELSE brought up Askren. I didn't agree. That's it. I'm DEFINITELY not interested in arguing about what would have hypothetically happened AFTER the Lawler fight, I'm not "admitting" anything as I'm not accused of anything(so far as I'm aware). I think Johnny Hendricks style made for a better fighter than Ben Askren. I think a guy like Parker Keckeisen would make for a better fighter than Bo Nickal. If you disagree...so be it, but this wasn't about Ben Askren and again, I didn't make it about him. I specifically mentioned David Taylor...and Askren is the guy people get worked up about? How about this...I don't think Cael would have been particularly great in MMA either. I DO think the Brands brothers would have. Now...I'm out. PSU and Iowa fans argue among yourselves.

Dude...I didn't bring Askren up. I simply said there's a certain type of Wrestler who I think is more likely to have success in MMA and more of a physical, controlling Wrestler vs someone who thrived based on a funky style...and I didn't mention Askren. I mentioned guys I thought would be good and guys I didn't think would be great fits. As for Lawler, Herb Dean has said it was his worst call and he feels terrible. I see why he thought that. I'm simply saying for his 3 wins...it's not SUPER impressive that he basically got a headlock that did nothing to Lawler after getting beaten...badly. I don't care who technically won the fight, I'm talking about the actual performance. And that was the highlight in the UFC. AS for him being old and out of shape, no he wasn't. I'd put money down that Askren right NOW is in better shape than 95% of UFC fighters and could go a 5 round fight... at least a 3 round fight. He's got a preternatural gas tank. That wasn't the issue. Shell of his former self? Sure. I don't really care, but if you want to say that, then the same would be said for Lawler who was I believe 38 to Askren's 35.

I suppose. That's like calling Connor's match with Khabib a hugely successful fight for him. I'm not really looking at this from a financial standpoint. I'm not looking at...LeBron and saying 'this is the best year of his career,' because it's the most he's ever been paid. That seems silly to me.

I agree. At the highest level Ben was 1-2 and that 1 he got the holy hell beat out of him. Bo...has only fought at the highest level and this was his first lost. You're really fixated on RDR's last two matches, but he's 20-2 in his career. Askren was 1-2 in UFC...and that 1 "win" was...generous.

Sure...he gets credit for...taking that beating and not quitting. I still wouldn't call it a wildly successful run, but...sure.

FIFY

Well...he's not my God, but I think Spencer Lee was destroy dude's in UFC.

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate? I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben.

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned).

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute.

Yeah, I "LITERALLY" didn't until you...I guess assumed I did and then replied to me. At THAT point, sure, I replied to you.