jross

This is a repeat of earlier discussion. Trump knew he lost. I'm just going to repeatedly respond that he knew it was rigged. We still don't know all the ways it was rigged, but some we do. Every election has been rigged by both sides, and we can't really know if the 'will of the people' is the election winner.

I'm certain that its third-party looking for unfolded ballots, evidence of fraud as result of... Affidavits: Susan Voyles, a recount auditor, claimed she saw “pristine” ballots... uncreased, perfectly marked, unlike typical mailed ballots. Barbara Hartman, Sonia-Francis Rolle... confirmed, noting ballots didn’t look folded or hand-marked. This suggests machine printing or fraud.

I've never met or spoken with anyone who supports taking control of the presidency by power... not anyone that supports any ideology. Trump... nobody ever. I've only read about it in social media... support to oust Trump by any means and that cheating is worth it... even killing is worth it. And only on social media have I heard that Trumps wants to 'seize power' and be a 'dictator.' Gab was too nuts for me... maybe there were right-of-center calling for it. We at least know there were a few radicals texting about it. Not mainstream to my knowledge...

Have you looked into how many cases were dismissed because they were filed post-election (laches), and how many were dismissed for lack of standing? About 30? You lean on cases where proof fell short, but what about Favorito v. Wan, dragging on since December 2020? It’s still alive after the Georgia Appeals Court revived it in 2023, pushing for a look at Fulton County’s 147,000 absentee ballots. Why the delay? Endless appeals and Fulton stonewalling. And why won’t officials hand over those ballots for an independent check, even after a judge ordered them unsealed? I've brought up this case repeatedly, so I apologize if you have acknowledged and I overlooked it.

Nutjobs but it wouldn't have happened that way. Its like MAPs becoming mainstream... nah.

I agree, and that's why this works! The wrestlers starving through matches will end up injured or losing against their healthier opponents. The struggle forces them to adapt, and the group ends up stronger overall. Cutting might decrease by 80% within 2 seasons? Its worth the try... and evolve if it fails.

'Understanding' = seeing why. 'Agreeing' = saying it’s right. Mixing them confuses logic with approval. Conflating is how you invent points... twisting ‘I get it’ into ‘I back it’ or 'He backs it.' I can understand why Gary Plauche shot and killed Jeffrey Doucet, the man who had kidnapped and raped his 11-year-old son, Jody Plauche. Note that no part of that statement says that I support crime, or that Gary supports crime. If you want to know if I agree, then ask...

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in a crisis when he felt the ends justified the means. Trump won in 2024 in part because of how laws were dismissed and abused. All the anti-Trumpers needed to do to win in 2024 was not talk about Trump, not allow him any media attention for any reasons.

Do you believe fake electors would cast their vote for Trump, and Trump voters would support victory that way? Nah... many supporters would support putting him in jail if it was an authoritarian power grab. The electors mess was about stalling... more time for court cases or deferring to Congress to pick the president. Imagine if the courts had heard the cases rather than throwing them out for "being to late" and "no one was harmed." If fraud was found, there would be a supporter celebration, consequences, and moves to secure future elections. If Trump won as result, it would be acceptable. If fraud was not found, but all the cases were transparent to the people, Trump would take a brand hit and people would increase faith in the election process. If Trump won because of congress selection, his support would be mixed... nobody really happy.

For the 47th reminder, that’s not what I said. I didn’t claim it’s “alright” legally or morally; I said it’s understandable from Trump’s perspective. Trump's actions and statements imply he STILL rejects anyone who says the election wasn't rigged, regardless of court outcomes.

hyperbole and assumptions... goes both ways. That's the problem with mail-in ballots.

Mat side weigh-ins is healthier for their bodies and fairer for the competition. The best case against is the logistics / costs in weighing people in repeatedly. Its a weak excuse. Maybe the admins / coaches care more about fielding all the weights than they do their wrestlers? Its certainly felt that way with every coach I've encountered that pretends making weight is magic.

Specifically page 41 from the Absentee and Early Voting section. restrict or abolish on-demand absentee voting in favor of in-person early voting. *(e.g., military, disabled voters) ...based on... Caltech and MIT researchers (computer scientists, human factors engineers, mechanical engineers, and social scientists) collected data from around the country and met with leading election officials, researchers, and industry representatives... over the course of a six month project. So leading election officials recommended to back off mail-in ballots based on the 2000 election... and instead we doubled the most mail-in ballots ever for the 2020 "Most Secure Election In History." /s

Donald Trump lost to Joe Biden, and he’s aware of that. He thought the process was shady and unethical (rigged, stolen), if not illegal. His actions make sense in regards to that view.

Georgia’s mail in ballot rejection rate fell from 6.4 percent in 2016 to 0.36 percent in 2020. Hmm... the same state that refuses to allow independent ballot inspection. The left-leaving Washington Post tells you that ballots are "less secure" https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/12/13/dont-be-shocked-by-the-north-carolina-fraud-allegations-absentee-ballots-are-much-less-secure-than-polling-places/ North Carolina ballot fraud in 2018 was caught because of whistleblowers... rather than the 'secure' process. Fraud that had been ongoing for years. Interesting... https://nypost.com/2020/08/29/political-insider-explains-voter-fraud-with-mail-in-ballots/ There are many such cases that turn this post into a wall of noise.

Fine, it is "built" to catch fraud, but it's design cannot work in practice. Fraud is, by its nature, hard to detect and measure and the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Mail is lost (on purpose or accident?) No voter ID laws Humans suck at verifying signatures, let alone thousands in rapid order Ballot harvesting is legal No end to end verification It is interesting what The California Institute of Technology and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology wrote from the 2000 election guidance for a more secure, reliable, robust system of recording election preferences. Search on fraud and read the repeated criticisms of mail in ballots. https://web.archive.org/web/20081120004337/http:/www.vote.caltech.edu/media/documents/july01/July01_VTP_Voting_Report_Entire.pdf

If the candidate is convinced the election was rigged, but the legal window’s tight and the system isn’t built to catch fraud, what’s next? This explains a lot of otherwise irrational behaviors. It doesn't help that an article was published that laid out with hubris how the election was stacked. It is narrow minded to ignore a rational skepticism... There were so many oddities...

See my previous quote: "You are not a troll..." You: "I'm trolling though?" See my previous quote: "J6 has so much propaganda spun throughout..." You: "Jan 6th is propaganda" No reason to keep listing your inventions... Willfully obtuse? Accidentally obtuse? I don't know... I'm going with gadfly rather than troll... you deliberately annoy by misrepresenting and then criticizing those misrepresentations.

When I saw it unfold on TV, my bias saw a crowd of pissed off boomers (and Trump supporters), feeling duped about the election, without a clear path forward. Some sheep and some critical thinkers; all a bit off kilter to attend a rally. What I was fed was "armed insurrection" and "worst day in history." And propaganda throughout: Peaceful protest, Antifa staged it, FBI staged it, Cops instigated, Coup Attempt, Political Prisoners, Trump's Insurrection, Trump Cheered, Cops Let Them In, ... etc. Spins, Omissions, Half truths, and Lies. Seditious conspiracy isn't the same as insurrection but its bad enough... and ~15 radicals were convicted of it. Like 175 assaults with intent for major harm. Those people should still be in jail. What's sketch is that law enforcement had pre-event knowledge and did not intercede. The event was a lot more nuanced than what we were told, and more continues to come out.

Hey @scourge165 - If you can't understand what has been explained repeatedly, and continue to reinterpret into your own invented point, you are willfully obtuse. You don't like Jack Russel terriers? Fine, you can be the Collie or Ralph Wolf. You are not a troll... maybe a gadfly?

Would fit right in with the media... inventing headlines

As you should. But which constitutionally guaranteed freedoms... speech, religion, assembly, protection from searches, or due process... have Trump, Musk, or Tesla directly violated against you/citizens? Honest question.

Get it through your thick skull. I don't glorify violence or call for a civil war. I admire stoics, though, and it’s obvious: if push came to shove, if too many lines were crossed, they’d dominate like Sam Sheepdog against Ralph Wolf. You get it...push someone and they push back. You are not the type of person to roll over when a line's been crossed. Hell you stir up fights over thin air. Supporting assassinations is crazy. Everyone knows that kind of crazy talk is gonna piss people off. Don’t lose your because your wild-ass friends can’t come out on top. You can be that badass who’d rather chill than throw punches, but let’s be real; if progressives started a civil war, the outcome’s not changing. I don't know where the FAFO line is... assassinating leaders burning rural areas like they burned cities jailing people over speech confiscating generational land to redistribute it ban displays of religion and destroy churches going house-to-house to seize firearms enforce every business, school, church to meet quotes; 50% to trans, 60% to historically oppressed forcing boys into toxic masculinity workshops and gender exploration programs rewarding kids for ratting out their parents for praying outlaw fossil fuel while rationing electricity Most would never do radical things like that. But some would... 55% say killing Trump is justified per the survey. This is why I say there is a line that could be crossed, that eventually would result in a response.

Has there ever been a pandemic? Yes. Spanish Flu. What occurred during the Flu pandemic? Huge decrease in votes. The Spanish flu pandemic saw a decrease in voters. Yet the covid pandemic saw 23M more votes in 2020 compared to 2016. (and more votes than the "most consequential election in U.S. history” 2024 vote.) Historical precedent (Spanish Flu) indicates that illness, fear, and logistical challenges results in less votes. COVID-19 brought illness, fear, and logistical challenges, yet participation soared beyond any other election both by numbers and percent increase (modern era). Why the difference from the Spanish Flu precedent? Technology? ...but what about 2012, 2016, and 2024 technology in comparison? social media is only increasing (not the tools) Mail in ballots? ...but what about 2024 not a well supported option during the Flu pandemic (reasonable conclusion) doubled from 33M to 65M in 2020 compared to 2016 (strange but understandable) back to 40-50M in 2024 (worth digging into) Where did mail in ballot participation reduce in 2024? Every state (while voting was actually up overall in some states) Actually the raw counts and percentages for republicans increased in 2024 as compared to 2020. It was the democrat and independent mail-in votes that decreased, bringing the total raw counts down. Why did mail in ballot participation reduce in 2024? More people voted in person or not at all. Less ballot harvesting??? (no chance to prove) What are reasons that countries refuse mail in ballots? 98% of ballots are cast in Japan as a ritual; a civic badge rather than a chore Sweden - mail-in adds complexity without boosting participation (87% vote turnout) Compulsory Voting - Belgium Fraud (cements that its a major concern) France had a major case of fraud South Korea fears fraud Israel prioritizes security How can you verify no voter fraud for mail-in ballots? You can't. (fact) This alone undermines "most secure ever." The secure statement is propaganda! Secret ballots are detached from your identity. Some states allow you to verify if a vote was received but not who you voted for. No end to end verification. Detection depends on reaction, not prevention. Logistical scale Is anyone trying to prove fraud in mail-in ballots? Favorito et al. v. Wan et al., the Georgia election lawsuit from 2020 led by Garland Favorito and VoterGA Court order to unseal "pristine unfolded" ballots is stalled 5 years! of persistence; case initial dismissed for bs reasons... stalled. Something is off. Why more votes in 2020 than 2024, in spite of increased voting pool? Biden was the best candidate in history? Crisis drove a desire for change? Biden did such a poor job that it caused voter apathy? Tighter mail-in rules, voter ID, etc. ------- Does this prove fraud? No. It does expose "secure" as unprovable swagger, not fact.

Yes that is correct. Context! ----