jross

It is mind numbing to contemplate something from nothing or that there has always been something. Our existence implies anything is possible given enough time. How are the odds calculated? Do they even matter since our beginning was impossible?

Morality is a human construct that says to murder another human is bad. Why is murder bad? Because it robs the human of a future like ours. The unborn naturally have a future like ours.

Already squared it. The child's right to life overrides the mother's elective choice.

(18) DJ McGee (GMU) 24-4

(11) Devon Dawson (NIU) 31-4

(10) Myles Takats (BUCK) 22-6

(10) Jack Consiglio (STAN) 14-5

(15) Tyler Knox (STAN) 14-5

(8) Dean Peterson (IOWA) 14-6

(3) Cross Wasilewski (PENN) 24-3

Wildcard: (4) Sonny Sasso (VT) 25-5

(2) Rocky Elam (ISU) 18-0

(1) Rocco Welsh (PSU) 20-0

yes

The title of the topic begins with "Reasonable" and the discussion is anything but from the OP.

My opinion Human life begins at conception, and that unborn child has the same right to life as anyone else. The only time it's justifiable to remove the child from the womb before natural birth is when the mother's life is genuinely at immediate risk, and even then, doctors should make every reasonable effort to save both lives. In all other cases, intentionally ending the pregnancy is homicide: the doctor performing it, the mother choosing it, and anyone who pressured or assisted her bear responsibility. For pregnancies where the child has a lethal anomaly (will die at birth or shortly after) or such severe disabilities that no independent, meaningful life is possible post-birth, early removal to end suffering isn't the same as elective abortion. It's compassionate in those tragic cases. These principles hold at every stage of pregnancy with no sliding scale. When a life-of-the-mother exception is invoked, it should be documented clearly and subject to evidence-based review to prevent abuse. Abortion for convenience, rape, incest, or non-lethal reasons? No. (unlawful) My compromise Homicide? All cases Lawful Mother's life at risk Mother will develop severe disabilities such that she cannot live an independent meaningful life Child has lethal anomaly (will die at birth or shortly after) Child has severe disabilities such that it cannot live an independent meaningful life Rape or incest Unlawful Mother's convenience, socioeconomic factors, preference. No sliding scale for "gestation." I argue against concepts of "delayed ensoulment." But this is why there is law and process and compromise. Enough believe ensoulment comes after a period of time and this society has to get along together. Enough people believe homicide is okay if the unborn is the result of rape or incest. It is of no fault of the child and they have a right to life... but I'd compromise to get along with society. I would not want to define what disabilities are severe enough to impact a meaningful life. This should start on the lighter side and become more nuanced over time. If I'm on the panel, I would reject depression, back pain, and wheelchair bound... This all stems from believing human is life at conception and that humans deserve the right to the golden rule. Yet being practical and somewhat compromising due to a society with different views. Elective killing of human life without their desire is evil. Period.

I will give more ammunition in a moment.

This has become a pattern of misrepresenting my words and then attacking the caricature. Not interested in continuing that loop. If you want a reasonable discussion in good faith without strawmanning, ad hominem attacks, moving goalposts, and generalization... we can continue. Otherwise, take care.

What makes you question whether humans deserve to live? Does it give you energy to intentionally misinform and misrepresent? How do you know if I have spoken to women that have had miscarriages, abortions, and children? How do you know if I've asked which is more difficult in their opinion, that is to be pregnant versus newborn care? Are you the guy that likes to question what self-evident is?

How do those relate to age predictions? They indicate the universe is alive in ways we are yet to comprehend.

Quantum physics is today's magic.

I've read the ark was discovered, multiple arks discovered, and no evidence of any arks discovered. Who knows? It is science that ocean life from the past is strangely found in elevated mountains. And boulders have been moved significant distances and elevations perhaps answered from great floods. Another reason is plate tectonics and glaciers...

Elective abortion is morally worse than women dying from unsafe abortions. If abortion was illegal for elective situations, lets round down to 80%, then 830,400 additional newborns from 2024 would still live at the cost of 149 additional mother lives. ignore the details (miscarriages, etc.). Fact. Abortion ends life of a human and it occurs on a massive scale in the United States. Data... The maternal mortality rate for 2024, 17.9 deaths per 100,000 live births (CDC). 649 women died of maternal causes 120 women died from abortion causes in 1963 and is notably less now that it's legally assisted. (pew research) An estimated 1,038,000 abortions were provided by clinicians in states without total bans in 2024 (guttmacher) The abortion rate in 2024 was 15.4 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–4 The provisional number of births for the United States in 2024 was 3,622,673 (CDC) Reasons for abortion (lozier) Rape and incest: 0.4% Risk to the woman’s life or a major bodily function: 0.3% Other physical health concerns: 2.2% Abnormality in the unborn baby: 1.2% Elective and unspecified reasons: 95.9%

^^^ is a strong case for enforced borders and legal immigration.

100% Since I accept the scientific understanding that a fetus is a human being, I believe that this human, who has committed no crime deserving death, has a right to live. Make better choices and be accountable for your choices applies in over 90% of the elective reasons that aborters give. Giving one's child up for adoption is ethically better than killing a human.