Wrestleknownothing

Careful

How quaint that you think $50 will get the job done.

Not necessarily. I like the conversation.

The long con. Nice.

I need a data volunteer. ???

You can have those two again this year.

Alright I am in assuming it won't be when the wife wants to go out for dinner.

If I expand the list to those who won 3 of 4 or 2 of 3 and those who never lost at the NCAA tournament but did not win the max due to injury, that adds another 82 names to the list. Obviously we can do better than that. We have nominations for Dan Gable, Gable Steveson, Jason Nolf (if you nominate him don't you have to include Nickal too?), Kyle Snyder, and any other Olympic/World Champ (I cannot think of any others not already on the list).

how does the draft work? I see you said "show up" above. Is it a live draft? If so, when? I am definitely interested, but don't want to commit then fade due to a conflict.

It has been prophesied. Lee and Yianni are the ones who were promised.

As long as there is more than one team/tribe there will be more than one GOAT.

dark, sticky, and benevolent.

He was a 3 for 4 wrestler. He went 2-2 his redshirt freshman year at NCAA's and did not place. But you are right that winning three in a row at Bloomsburg is pretty darn impressive. And that he decided not to wrestle after high school, worked in a factory for a year, and then changed his mind, makes it more impressive to me.

Starting with guys who never lost at the NCAA tournament is just a choice, and not purely accurate. For example Lowell Lange and Greg Johnson never lost at the NCAA tournament. They each lost a season due to injury. Perhaps they should be on the list. Who would you include beyond the 100%ers? And where would you slot them?

Oh, you want to say it. You need to say it. Maybe start by going someplace remote and just whisper it into a cup. We can build slowly. Maybe use it at a party, or with the cashier at Starbucks. But it is probably best to start by saying both words with a pause in between and then work on shortening the pause by an imperceptible increment each day. It will be like watching a baby grow, but in reverse, Kyle Dake style. You won't even notice the tiny difference, but one day you will wake up and the two baby words have grown up into one big word. Trust me, it is liberating. I have a five year plan where I expect to hear it on the PA at the 2028 NCAA tournament.

You, sir, are a steely-eyed missile man.

I think so, yes. 22 of 30 who won 3 of 4 took the loss freshman year.

Shall I add Anthony Cassar as well?

Yep. 9 for 9. Pretty amazing.

Mea Culpa Forgive me data for I have sinned. There are sins of commission and sins of omission. I have committed the latter. My original data table was missing FOUR undefeated wrestlers (thank you @Jason Bryant for catching my error). You should never trust me again. Read everything critically. That said, trust me, this time I got it right (I hope). FYI, top quartile is now top 6.

In the early days of the tournament it was a very regional national tournament as travel costs were a big issue, so not everyone was there. They even took the profits from the tournament to rebate portions of the train fair for all of the participants (55 1/3 cents in 1929). As a result some brackets were tiny. We even have a third place finisher who went 0-2. All in all, it is really hard to make the case that all of the best are at a tournament when there are physical and financial impediments.

1964 Oklahoma had 6th seed Jerry Stanley (147) and unseeded Mike Sager (137) win titles. 1976 Wisconsin had 5th seed Jack Reinwand (126) and unseeded Pat Christenson (167) win titles.

They did via the win %.

A pox upon me. I used the wrong data set for my starting point. I started with the highest scoring wrestlers at the NCAA tourney. Gray was not among the top 222. I will fix this.

After reading a thread on HR about where Spencer Lee stands in the pantheon of four timers I decided to take a look at 100%ers instead. Since 1928 there have been 20 wrestlers who won all the titles they were eligible for (yes, I am including Spencer Lee and Yianni Dikomihalis because it is a 100%-slam dunk-guarantee they will win their fourth - you heard it here first). For these 20 I looked at a variety of metrics that I thought were important. For dominance I looked at bonus points per NCAA match (using today's scoring system), pinfall %, and career win %. But I also wanted to measure permanence. In the early days they wrestled very few matches. And I think this matters. It is easier to win 25 straight matches than it is to win 100 straight. So I included total NCAA matches wrestled, total career wins, and total career pinfalls. Some metrics favor the old and some favor the new. To adjust for this reasonable people might weigh these metrics differently than I did. Or include other metrics. Or exclude these metrics. There are choices. What I did was count the number of times a wrestler appears in the top quartile and sort by that count. To break ties I sorted by the average rank. I fully expect Iowa and Cornell fans to absolutely hate this post. Homework: How do you feel about where the two newest four timers stand? Would you include three for three wrestlers in your list? Why or why not?