Stallcus Blaze

[forkemaz]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

If you want to count 1/2 shots be my guest but they're a far cry from being a scoring attempt.  Listen, you're exaggerating.  It's ok.  It's all good

I disagree. But at least you stay on topic. We can disagree thats fine.

[Pinnacle]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

If you want to count 1/2 shots be my guest but they're a far cry from being a scoring attempt.  Listen, you're exaggerating.  It's ok.  It's all good

He is seeing what confirms his bias while ignoring everything that runs counter to it. People need to grasp at straws at this point when trying to knock Penn State. 

I hope to see a lot more great matches between these two guys, and if/when Davino wins one it won't be easy but I won't be claiming the ref jobbed him by calling or not calling stalling. It will take a lot more than that.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, forkemaz said:

I disagree. But at least you stay on topic. We can disagree thats fine.

You can watch the match again.  Blaze could've been hit with fleeing.  Other than that Davino did nothing to warrant a stall.  That's fact.  Same thing with posters complaining about Antrell/PJ.  PJ did nothing to warrant a stall call despite Antrell's inactivity because in both matches there was little activity and the center of the mat was held.  

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

He is seeing what confirms his bias while ignoring everything that runs counter to it. People need to grasp at straws at this point when trying to knock Penn State. 

I hope to see a lot more great matches between these two guys, and if/when Davino wins one it won't be easy but I won't be claiming the ref jobbed him by calling or not calling stalling. It will take a lot more than that.

Now that’s funny 

[BruceyB]

4 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

 

1st period - Davino took a half shot and an additional shot

2nd Period - Neither Wrestler took a shot

3rd period - Davino in on the leg.  Blaze could've been dinged for fleeing.  Rest of the period no shots were taken

SV1 - Davino 1\2 shot Blaze re-attack 

That was all the offensive output. 

Hit 'em both. 2 calls against Marcus and 1 against Davino would be better than what we watched.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, BruceyB said:

Hit 'em both. 2 calls against Marcus and 1 against Davino would be better than what we watched.

Why what's the difference on 1-1 versus 0-0? 

[BruceyB]

4 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

You can watch the match again.  Blaze could've been hit with fleeing.  Other than that Davino did nothing to warrant a stall.  That's fact.  Same thing with posters complaining about Antrell/PJ.  PJ did nothing to warrant a stall call despite Antrell's inactivity because in both matches there was little activity and the center of the mat was held.  

I will say the same to you as I said to Truzz, this way of approaching stalling is the problem. PJ nor Davino should have to continuously put themselves at risk against great counter wrestlers in order for Antrell or Blaze to get hit for stalling. It's simple, if you aren't doing anything, you should be called. And if neither guy is doing anything, hit'em both. When two guys agree to stare at each other in the center without doing anything, that doesn't mean neither is stalling.. it means both are.

It shouldn't be PJ Duke's job to make Antrell Taylor wrestle. A D1 official should be able to tell when a guy isn't take any chances or offering any offensive effort and call them for it. 

The first stall warning is literally a free warning. It's sad that as a fan base we've come to look at it as a major deal because then the wrestler can't evade without punishment when they have a lead with 30 seconds left. You should not be able to make it out of the first period with 0 shot attempts and no stall warning.

[BruceyB]

9 hours ago, forkemaz said:

I completly agree. I was picking Marcus before the match. I even said i thought he was going to open up abd put it on Davino to prove a point. How wrong I was is laughable. He did absolutley nothing and the refs let him. I do think Marcus would win even if the refs put him in a position where he had to attack but that match left such a bad taste in my mouth I wont be rooting for him at NCAAs. I want anyone else to win 133.

I think the point that everyone misses, and we clearly agree on, is that our grief isn't taking away from Marcus' win, or insinuating that he would have lost if stalling were actually called. The grief is that guys are allowed to wrestle this style with impunity. As a fan I want to watch guys wrestle, and the way things are currently called, we get a lot of matches with very, very little wrestling. Then we are left feeling let down by a result that doesn't really tell us anything about who the better wrestler was in that match.

I'd be really curious if @Wrestleknownothing has the stats readily available and they agree, but I feel like 10-15 years ago, there were significantly less 0-0 firsts, and 1-1 OTs. I remember the NCAA finals usually got boring because that's when guys wrestled more cautiously like today's wrestlers wrestle each and every match against a good opponent.

[Caveira]

I thought the 3 point take down was going to fix stalling.  Same with the 4 point near fall.   
 

Did they not?

[Paul158]

20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Hit 'em both. 2 calls against Marcus and 1 against Davino would be better than what we watched.

Excellent . the voice of reason.

[Paul158]

51 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I thought the 3 point take down was going to fix stalling.  Same with the 4 point near fall.   
 

Did they not?

Calling stalling consistently and when it is warranted, will only fix stalling. Most advanced wrestlers do what you call smart stalling. It's a bit of an acting job in order to avoid actually taking risks. The advanced wrestler figures out what the refs are allowing and wrestle accordingly. Smart stalling is usually done when the wrestlers are evenly matched. Taking risks against a good counter wrestler is not very smart if you can avoid it. That's where the ref comes in. Most refs do a good job with that.

[Paul158]

20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I think the point that everyone misses, and we clearly agree on, is that our grief isn't taking away from Marcus' win, or insinuating that he would have lost if stalling were actually called. The grief is that guys are allowed to wrestle this style with impunity. As a fan I want to watch guys wrestle, and the way things are currently called, we get a lot of matches with very, very little wrestling. Then we are left feeling let down by a result that doesn't really tell us anything about who the better wrestler was in that match.

I'd be really curious if @Wrestleknownothing has the stats readily available and they agree, but I feel like 10-15 years ago, there were significantly less 0-0 firsts, and 1-1 OTs. I remember the NCAA finals usually got boring because that's when guys wrestled more cautiously like today's wrestlers wrestle each and every match against a good opponent.

+++$$$

[Caveira]

40 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Calling stalling consistently and when it is warranted, will only fix stalling. Most advanced wrestlers do what you call smart stalling. It's a bit of an acting job in order to avoid actually taking risks. The advanced wrestler figures out what the refs are allowing and wrestle accordingly. Smart stalling is usually done when the wrestlers are evenly matched. Taking risks against a good counter wrestler is not very smart if you can avoid it. That's where the ref comes in. Most refs do a good job with that.

You’re right but they did change the scoring rules to encourage action as the theory was more points = more incentive to score.  I knew it wouldn’t change anything.  Now we’re stuck with silly scoring rules that didn’t change anything. 

[Pinnacle]

I feel like no matter how far we go with this stalling thing, we can always go even further. Can both wrestlers be double stall called into a double dq?

[LT95]

Buckeye fan here. Blaze was most certainly not being aggressive, but I wouldn’t say he was stalling. He wasn’t backing, outside of when Davino had the single leg up (could’ve got hit there). But throughout the match he wasn’t backing and presented himself. The problem with wrestling him is he never comes out of his stance and probably has the best head hands defense in the country. Bo Bassett and all his pressure couldn’t get Blaze to come out of his stance or beat his head hands defense. 

[Pinnacle]

18 minutes ago, Coastal said:

I would bet big bucks that a casual fan would never guess who took Blaze down this year.  He just doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

It will be interesting to see who moves up to 141 next year.  A couple of this year's 133s would probaly be favored to make the finals at 141 this year and Mendez is gone plus it's better for those with Olympic aspirations at 65kg.

 

Very few here would know it was Willochell from Wyoming, and even then it was brick challenged. I think his brother took down SVN in that dual.

A lot of this is freestyle, but Blaze beat Davino 3 or 4 times in a row now, Jax maybe 2x, Seidel, Larkin 2x, Bo Basset and numerous college AA who could not get thru his head hands defense. 

[dwoods]

How about blazes winning reversal though. That was epic. Best 133 in the country. Hands down. 

[Pinnacle]

2 minutes ago, dwoods said:

How about blazes winning reversal though. That was epic. Best 133 in the country. Hands down. 

 

Another thing that was epic was Jim Gibbons commentary thru that sequence. He should get some props. I would rather have him than a lot of other guys on the call.

[dwoods]

Agree 100. 

[russ1847]

10 minutes ago, dwoods said:

How about blazes winning reversal though. That was epic. Best 133 in the country. Hands down. 

Lucas Byrd is the best 133 in the country, until proven otherwise.

[dwoods]

That didn’t seem very confident. Again hands down blaze the top gun. Just enjoy the greatness. 

[Paul158]

25 minutes ago, dwoods said:

How about blazes winning reversal though. That was epic. Best 133 in the country. Hands down. 

by a whisker. maybe.

[Paul158]

15 minutes ago, russ1847 said:

Lucas Byrd is the best 133 in the country, until proven otherwise.

Right now there is really no way to tell. While Byrd is very good he hasn't wrestled any of the top wrestlers. stop. I know you are going to say Ayala. Ayala has at least 6 losses this year but he might get to wrestle Forrest in their upcoming dual. Most of the others have had better competition and won. I guess we will get to see in the Big Ten Tourney.

[russ1847]

21 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Right now there is really no way to tell. While Byrd is very good he hasn't wrestled any of the top wrestlers. stop. I know you are going to say Ayala. Ayala has at least 6 losses this year but he might get to wrestle Forrest in their upcoming dual. Most of the others have had better competition and won. I guess we will get to see in the Big Ten Tourney.

Sure there is.  Byrd is an undefeated returning national champion and the others are not.  The lack of respect for a guy who has won 29 in a row is crazy.  We will see if the different freshman can deal with constant forward pressure.

 

[Paul158]

26 minutes ago, russ1847 said:

Sure there is.  Byrd is an undefeated returning national champion and the others are not.  The lack of respect for a guy who has won 29 in a row is crazy.  We will see if the different freshman can deal with constant forward pressure.

 

Last year Ayala and Byrd were dead even 3to2 tie breaker. This year he also beat Ayala. So has Davino and 3 other wrestlers. With the exception of Forrest his competition has wrestled tougher higher ranked individuals and won. I don't believe winning last year means as much as what you are doing this year. Being undefeated doesn't mean a lot if you have a soft schedule. But it doesn't really matter. If he is that good it shouldn't matter where he is seeded in the tournament. Seedings and rankings are great, but you still have to wrestle and win. All I know whoever wins 133 is going to have to earn it. Great weight class. NCAA's will be even tougher especially if Forrest decides to wrestle.