IQ by nation

[red viking]

1 hour ago, El Luchador said:

Also calculating the IQ of an entire generation that isn't even alive isn't factual, it all theoretical. I actually believe generations before us we much smarter. They were far more independent and had to be to stay alive. They were the generations that gave us everything out of nothing. That is not something accomplished by a low intelligence generation. The somalis have not taken their culture to even early 19th century advancement. They are society that is completely dependent. 

People are generally WAY smarter than they were 100 years ago. Data proves that. Yes, there are certain things that people could do better but that's because they were trained to do them and they were necessary. This is a typical "back in the good 'ol days" dumb winger argument that has absolutely jack squat to back it up. 

[red viking]

1 hour ago, El Luchador said:

 

 

 

 

Another Fox News BS propaganda clip. Wouldn't expect anything less from a winger. 

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

It doesn’t matter whether one likes or dislikes the test results nor the political leanings of that person.  The only thing that matters is if it’s an accurate measurement of intelligence or not.  
 

You have interpreted the test scores in Somalia to mean that Somalis are “to ignorant to function independently in our society” and that allowing them to immigrate would be adding “dependence” and not intelligence to the gene pool.  This assumes that the IQ score from the test is a measure of some kind of innate intelligence determined by genetics, but is that really what the test measures?  
 

One well known feature of IQ tests is that they are normalized to have an average score of 100 with a standard deviation of 15.  With the numbers you quoted is pretty clear this test was normalized to US test results - US is the country with an average of 100.  The test is renormalized over time to keep the mean and standard deviation the same.  A well documented observation is that the raw unnormalized IQ scores have increased over time both in the US and worldwide.  This trend is referred to as the Flynn effect and the increase is about 3 raw IQ points per decade in the US.

Flynn calculated that the average American in 1900 would score 67 on an IQ test in the year 2000.  He judged this increase to be too large to be explained by genetic changes in only a few generations.  He thought environmental changes like education  were more likely.  This makes for an interesting comparison.  The average Somali today probably has a raw IQ that is the same as the average American from your grandparents generation.  Were your grandparents “to ignorant to function independently” in today’s society?  Did their genetics introduce dependence to the gene pool?

Why such a statistical outlier in mn where a huge % of Somalis are on food stamps or welfare vs other groups.   Is it intelligence or laziness ?

[El Luchador]

2 hours ago, red viking said:

Another Fox News BS propaganda clip. Wouldn't expect anything less from a winger. 

Talking out your butt again. It has nothing to do with Fox and even if it did it would be irrelevant to the information. The whole argument from authority is a childs way of thinking. From a man who claims intellectual superiority you sure don't show it in your posts. Very little more than childish insults and self-proclimations of Superior intelligence.

[El Luchador]

2 hours ago, red viking said:

People are generally WAY smarter than they were 100 years ago. Data proves that. Yes, there are certain things that people could do better but that's because they were trained to do them and they were necessary. This is a typical "back in the good 'ol days" dumb winger argument that has absolutely jack squat to back it up. 

In limited areas. In others not at all. Society has advanced but that's not indicative of metal capacity.  Look at the ingenuity that was required to build basic necessities. A person had to provide all the necessities in life by themselves. How many people could navigate the country without roads or maps.  You clearly don't have appropriate level of appreciation for life before modern amenities.

[Offthemat]

5 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

In limited areas. In others not at all. Society has advanced but that's not indicative of metal capacity.  Look at the ingenuity that was required to build basic necessities. A person had to provide all the necessities in life by themselves. How many people could navigate the country without roads or maps.  You clearly don't have appropriate level of appreciation for life before modern amenities.

 

Our most critical weakness today is our dependence on, and inability to survive without, electricity.  Something that was common not that long ago. 

[fishbane]

11 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

In limited areas. In others not at all. Society has advanced but that's not indicative of metal capacity.  Look at the ingenuity that was required to build basic necessities. A person had to provide all the necessities in life by themselves. How many people could navigate the country without roads or maps.  You clearly don't have appropriate level of appreciation for life before modern amenities.

Lol, What did you say earlier "standard leftist answer to everything they don't like 'it can't be true'"  Are you not are throwing out a fact that you don't like?  Namely that students today have higher raw IQs than 100 years ago.  The average student in Somalia today gets about the same number of questions right as the average American student 100 years ago.  

If you take for granted that IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence then how do you explain this?  One could simply conclude that 100 years ago Americans and modern Somalis are low intelligence.  That would be consistent, but you aren't doing that.  What is your explanation?  

[El Luchador]

1 minute ago, fishbane said:

Lol, What did you say earlier "standard leftist answer to everything they don't like 'it can't be true'"  Are you not are throwing out a fact that you don't like?  Namely that students today have higher raw IQs than 100 years ago.  The average student in Somalia today gets about the same number of questions right as the average American student 100 years ago.  

If you take for granted that IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence then how do you explain this?  One could simply conclude that 100 years ago Americans and modern Somalis are low intelligence.  That would be consistent, but you aren't doing that.  What is your explanation?  

No , I'm disagreeing that kids today have a higher IQ. I don't accept one mans assurtion that even though we don't have the data, we're smarter than them. 

[fishbane]

Just now, El Luchador said:

No , I'm disagreeing that kids today have a higher IQ. I don't accept one mans assurtion that even though we don't have the data, we're smarter than them. 

This isn't an assurtion or even an assertion.  We have the data.  IQ tests have been administered for over 100 years.  Students today get more questions correct.  So you think students today getting more questions correct than students 100 years ago that doesn't mean that today's kids are more intelligent, but American students getting more questions correct that Somali students means Americans are more intelligent? I'm not saying that what is going on is fully understood, but if you are so quick to dismiss past Americans being less intelligent than maybe you shouldn't be so quick to conclude that Somalis are "to ignorant to function."

To me it sure looks like you are throwing out that something you don't like.  Who should we rely on to interpret and analyze the data professional researchers in education and psychology or does some anonymous anti-immigration luchador on a message board know best?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

[Caveira]

13 minutes ago, fishbane said:

This isn't an assurtion or even an assertion.  We have the data.  IQ tests have been administered for over 100 years.  Students today get more questions correct.  So you think students today getting more questions correct than students 100 years ago that doesn't mean that today's kids are more intelligent, but American students getting more questions correct that Somali students means Americans are more intelligent? I'm not saying that what is going on is fully understood, but if you are so quick to dismiss past Americans being less intelligent than maybe you shouldn't be so quick to conclude that Somalis are "to ignorant to function."

To me it sure looks like you are throwing out that something you don't like.  Who should we rely on to interpret and analyze the data professional researchers in education and psychology or does some anonymous anti-immigration luchador on a message board know best?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

No one answered why a disproportionate amount of these super smart Somalis depend on the government to survive.   You must be taking the lazy side of the argument right ?   Smart people not wanting to work 

Edited December 10, 2025 by Caveira

[red viking]

Reject the data when it doesn't fit your narrative. Accept it when it does. That's exactly how the wingers operate. 110% of the time. 

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, red viking said:

Reject the data when it doesn't fit your narrative. Accept it when it does. That's exactly how the wingers operate. 110% of the time. 

Reject the data showing them overwhelmingly requiring free tax $$$$ from the government ?   

[WrestlingRasta]

On 12/8/2025 at 10:10 AM, Offthemat said:

Have you abandoned your pretentious posturing of the Hegseth/Trump/narco-terrorist ordeal?  You should have learned by now that getting giddy over anonymously sourced claims of Trump Administration depravity never rises to meet your dreams.  What’s interesting is the mentality of continuously falling for the gaslighting.  Numerous people sharing similar beliefs isn’t necessarily an example of parroting, we call it a party. 

Have you abandoned your pretentious posturing of the Hegseth/Trump/narco-terrorist ordeal? I haven't abandoned anything, but there wasn't any pretentious posturing.  What I have relayed is my position on the matter, which included discussing if facts come out and they are consistent with the reporting, it doesn't look good.  I guess the difference between you and me is that I realize the President and Hegseth saying something doesn't make it facts. We haven't had anything come out definitively since, other than the admiral himself stating in front of congress that their ship was capsized and there was no indications they were able to communicate with any of their partners.  Other than that, its some people saying one thing about what they saw in the video, and other people saying something different about what they say in the video.  That's not enough for me.  Will be interesting to see if they release the video of the second strike.  I mean Hegseth says that when it comes to doing that, protecting tactics and procedures is important.  But I wonder what there is in the second part of the video to meet that end that there isn't in the first part of the video....because they sure released that part pretty quickly while sitting on the second part.  Further, I still question the legality of this whole program, as I believe these boats and the people killed on them as drug runners at most, but not at all terrorists.  But that's a whole other element to the discussion. 
 

Thought I might expand on this today with a few pieces of information that have come out.  One being the Admiral admitting in his briefing that this boat in question was not on a heading of a US destined route, but rather going the opposite direction, on a known route that never hits the United States.  I‘m sure we can all admit that is interesting, not sure how that strike saved “25,000 American lives” if that’s the case.    The other interesting piece of information is the US seizing a Velenzuelan oil tanker today. Many people have stated their belief this narco terrorist story and war with the country is really about their oil.   Certainly something to keep an eye on.  And finally, reporting today that on October 29, a meeting was convened with pentagon and cabinet members as well as American diplomats across the western hemisphere, to discuss how to handle survivors of these attacks.  The message in this meeting was that survivors should be sent back to their own or a third country, which we know is what took place after the killing of the survivors the first time around, instead of taking these survivors into custody and captivity, which has always been the standard whether we are talking about apprehensions from crimes or combats, to ensure they do not end up in the US legal system, where in court the US could be forced to show evidence to justify these actions.   It is ‘reporting’ but again, something any objective observer would definitely want to keep an eye on…

 

Like I said, the more that comes out, the more this whole campaign doesn’t seem so on the up and up. Will see what more comes out.  
 

(PS-they still won’t agree to releasing the video yet, even though one day Big T said of course they will, then a few days later told a reporter she was a stupid, nasty, obnoxious person for daring to….quote him from when he said of course they will.   All very interesting). 

[Offthemat]

51 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Have you abandoned your pretentious posturing of the Hegseth/Trump/narco-terrorist ordeal? I haven't abandoned anything, but there wasn't any pretentious posturing.  What I have relayed is my position on the matter, which included discussing if facts come out and they are consistent with the reporting, it doesn't look good.  I guess the difference between you and me is that I realize the President and Hegseth saying something doesn't make it facts. We haven't had anything come out definitively since, other than the admiral himself stating in front of congress that their ship was capsized and there was no indications they were able to communicate with any of their partners.  Other than that, its some people saying one thing about what they saw in the video, and other people saying something different about what they say in the video.  That's not enough for me.  Will be interesting to see if they release the video of the second strike.  I mean Hegseth says that when it comes to doing that, protecting tactics and procedures is important.  But I wonder what there is in the second part of the video to meet that end that there isn't in the first part of the video....because they sure released that part pretty quickly while sitting on the second part.  Further, I still question the legality of this whole program, as I believe these boats and the people killed on them as drug runners at most, but not at all terrorists.  But that's a whole other element to the discussion. 
 

Thought I might expand on this today with a few pieces of information that have come out.  One being the Admiral admitting in his briefing that this boat in question was not on a heading of a US destined route, but rather going the opposite direction, on a known route that never hits the United States.  I‘m sure we can all admit that is interesting, not sure how that strike saved “25,000 American lives” if that’s the case.    The other interesting piece of information is the US seizing a Velenzuelan oil tanker today. Many people have stated their belief this narco terrorist story and war with the country is really about their oil.   Certainly something to keep an eye on.  And finally, reporting today that on October 29, a meeting was convened with pentagon and cabinet members as well as American diplomats across the western hemisphere, to discuss how to handle survivors of these attacks.  The message in this meeting was that survivors should be sent back to their own or a third country, which we know is what took place after the killing of the survivors the first time around, instead of taking these survivors into custody and captivity, which has always been the standard whether we are talking about apprehensions from crimes or combats, to ensure they do not end up in the US legal system, where in court the US could be forced to show evidence to justify these actions.   It is ‘reporting’ but again, something any objective observer would definitely want to keep an eye on…

 

Like I said, the more that comes out, the more this whole campaign doesn’t seem so on the up and up. Will see what more comes out.  
 

(PS-they still won’t agree to releasing the video yet, even though one day Big T said of course they will, then a few days later told a reporter she was a stupid, nasty, obnoxious person for daring to….quote him from when he said of course they will.   All very interesting). 

I don’t know anything about drug trafficking routes, but I did hear that the the Admiral made the call based on advice from JAG Officers.  As far as the tanker, and Venezuelan oil in general, it was headed for China, which I believe has been sanctioned.  That would also mean it’s being sold off-market, which has several adverse consequences.  It may be something about the Monroe/Trump Doctrine.  I must say I appreciate you keeping us informed on these developments. 

[JimmySpeaks]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I don’t know anything about drug trafficking routes, but I did hear that the the Admiral made the call based on advice from JAG Officers.  As far as the tanker, and Venezuelan oil in general, it was headed for China, which I believe has been sanctioned.  That would also mean it’s being sold off-market, which has several adverse consequences.  It may be something about the Monroe/Trump Doctrine.  I must say I appreciate you keeping us informed on these developments. 

He also secured legal advice before going after the remaining two individuals.  

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

He also secured legal advice before going after the remaining two individuals.

During the Biden administration we were told that Americans were too fat, addicted, and uneducated to qualify for military service.  The ones who did qualify weren’t interested.  Immediately following the election recruitment shot through the roof.  Just like the border, all that was needed was new leadership.  
 

This siding with narco-terrorists and inciting division, instability, and disruption within the military is just another element in the color revolution the dimocrats are waging to overthrow and destroy this country.  

Where did the money come from, who paid for, the video made by the Seditious Six?

[El Luchador]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

This isn't an assurtion or even an assertion.  We have the data.  IQ tests have been administered for over 100 years.  Students today get more questions correct.  So you think students today getting more questions correct than students 100 years ago that doesn't mean that today's kids are more intelligent, but American students getting more questions correct that Somali students means Americans are more intelligent? I'm not saying that what is going on is fully understood, but if you are so quick to dismiss past Americans being less intelligent than maybe you shouldn't be so quick to conclude that Somalis are "to ignorant to function."

To me it sure looks like you are throwing out that something you don't like.  Who should we rely on to interpret and analyze the data professional researchers in education and psychology or does some anonymous anti-immigration luchador on a message board know best?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Not at a rate sufficient to make wide sweeping assertions. 

This is  all done with voice to text. However it  comes out is how it comes out

If you want to make this about grammar and spelling I'm sure I can go back and review some of your posts.

Edited December 10, 2025 by El Luchador

[mspart]

Can we all just agree that 80-90% of the Somalis in MN are on welfare and agree that is not good?

https://cis.org/Report/Somali-Immigrants-Minnesota

Nearly every Somali household with children (89 percent) receives some form of welfare.

.

The first fact is established.   They (in this case Somalis in MN) come and go on welfare and stay on welfare at very high numbers.   In fact the rate of welfare among those that are <10 years here and >10 years here is almost indistinguishable.  

Now can we agree that this is not what the immigration program of the US intends?  Can we agree that this is not good?

It was not the intention to have people be on welfare for life.   But that is what is happening.   The incentive to get off of welfare is not there and that needs to change.   That is my opinion. 

mspart

 

[Caveira]

6 minutes ago, mspart said:

Can we all just agree that 80-90% of the Somalis in MN are on welfare and agree that is not good?

https://cis.org/Report/Somali-Immigrants-Minnesota

Nearly every Somali household with children (89 percent) receives some form of welfare.

.

The first fact is established.   They (in this case Somalis in MN) come and go on welfare and stay on welfare at very high numbers.   In fact the rate of welfare among those that are <10 years here and >10 years here is almost indistinguishable.  

Now can we agree that this is not what the immigration program of the US intends?  Can we agree that this is not good?

It was not the intention to have people be on welfare for life.   But that is what is happening.   The incentive to get off of welfare is not there and that needs to change.   That is my opinion. 

mspart

 

Not only that.  They are birthing lifetime welfare us citizens that vote a certain way.  Almost like it’s a strategy.    

[Caveira]

Wait are somalies stealing in other states too ?   Say it ain’t so.  A completely corrupt country coming here and .:::: are completely corrupt?

 

 

 

[JimmySpeaks]

34 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Not only that.  They are birthing lifetime welfare us citizens that vote a certain way.  Almost like it’s a strategy.    

Of course it’s a strategy. 

[mspart]

No wonder that rep from Maine (was it?) said we owe the somali immigrants our tax money and we owe Somalia our tax money.   Ah yes, here it is.  

https://www.facebook.com/MichaelARothman/posts/democrat-maine-representative-deqa-dhalac-says-her-goal-in-american-government-i/1415375290147452/

https://www.themainewire.com/2025/07/deqa-dhalac-goes-viral-for-expressing-loyalty-to-somalia-has-ties-to-radical-somali-who-won-the-democratic-primary-for-minneapolis-mayor/

mspart

 

[Offthemat]

I don’t know.

 

[El Luchador]

And the left will tell us we're racist again.  

[fishbane]

6 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Not at a rate sufficient to make wide sweeping assertions. 

 I’m not sure what you are referring to.   You were the one that started the thread with the sweeping assertion that Somalis are “too ignorant to function independently in our society.”  
 

If you referring to the Flynn effect, Flynn’s initial work used actual US test results from 1932-1978 to calculate the increase in raw score increase rate of 3 points per decade over 4.5 decades.  That is significant.  I am sure the US IQ test data from 1932-present is higher quality and more comprehensive than whatever test data was used to calculate the national average IQ for Somalia you quoted.