Takeaways from National Duals

[BruceyB]

First and foremost, what a treat this has been for fans two weeks into the college season. Hats off to all the teams and athletes for showing up and putting it on the line against a LOT of absolute studs. There were a lot of athletes in the field that could have likely gone into their conference tournaments with 2-3 losses on the season without this event and wound up taking 2 or 3 losses in one weekend by competing. It's all-too-often that we go into the new year and still haven't seen a majority of guys in the top 10 tested.

That said, I think it's obviously important not to overreact to the results from one weekend this early in the season. As I stated above, we often don't see guys like Facundo, Antrell, Hardy, McEnelly, Bailey, Figueroa, Sinclair, Ferrari, Merrill and on and on get tested before January. I'm hardly ready to guess where guys will end up 4 months from now. But it's been extremely fun to see where everyone is to "start" the season, and then see how things shake out in the end. Thanks to everyone for the company the past couple days. The finals should be great tonight!

 

[Truzzcat]

My main takeaway is how ready these kids are out of high school. Obviously the big 3 from okst but adding to that mix you have Ronnie Ramirez, Leo deluca, Will Denny, Ryan Burton, Seth Mendoza all making great accounts for themselves. (Mendoza had a losing record on the weekend but I think he is firmly a top 15-20 guy at 157 which is a weight he looks like he has zero business being at he wrestled 61kg in April.)

[TW8]

34 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

My main takeaway is how ready these kids are out of high school. Obviously the big 3 from okst but adding to that mix you have Ronnie Ramirez, Leo deluca, Will Denny, Ryan Burton, Seth Mendoza all making great accounts for themselves. (Mendoza had a losing record on the weekend but I think he is firmly a top 15-20 guy at 157 which is a weight he looks like he has zero business being at he wrestled 61kg in April.)

Thought the same thing about Mendoza.  Is that the plan for the rest of the season?

[Truzzcat]

24 minutes ago, TW8 said:

Thought the same thing about Mendoza.  Is that the plan for the rest of the season?

No idea, sounds like 141 may not be an option with his weight currently or its going to be a hell of a pull, and I dont think they want to shelf Edmond for his senior year. That said Mendoza is 1000% a contender at 149 in my book.

[flyingcement]

The main takeaway for me is a continued belief that:
1) Robideau has the best offense we have seen from a true freshman since Hamiti
2) Vega is a true magician in a way that should earn him the name above his Magic Man coach
3) Duals are the best fan experience (if the teams can be convinced to care)

[Truzzcat]

4 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

The main takeaway for me is a continued belief that:
1) Robideau has the best offense we have seen from a true freshman since Hamiti
2) Vega is a true magician in a way that should earn him the name above his Magic Man coach
3) Duals are the best fan experience (if the teams can be convinced to care)

*brain*

[Alces Alces Gigas]

2 hours ago, flyingcement said:

The main takeaway for me is a continued belief that:
1) Robideau has the best offense we have seen from a true freshman since Hamiti
2) Vega is a true magician in a way that should earn him the name above his Magic Man coach
3) Duals are the best fan experience (if the teams can be convinced to care)

Singular duals are the best fan experience. Dual tournaments are not as bad as individual tournament but it the same type of mess.

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, flyingcement said:

1) Robideau has the best offense we have seen from a true freshman since Hamiti

Shapiro?  As a true freshman he tied for the most bonus points in the 2024 NCAA tournament.  68% bonus rate.

[cangemi]

Take aways.  The wrestlers are getting better then ever. 

 

Davino , Landon Rob. ok state title contenders

 

They stand out to me

 

[flyingcement]

16 minutes ago, Alces Alces Gigas said:

Singular duals are the best fan experience. Dual tournaments are not as bad as individual tournament but it the same type of mess.

I personally disagree and loved the atmosphere of a Virginia Duals

[Rassling2]

9 hours ago, cangemi said:

The wrestlers are getting better then ever. 

Ditto

[Mizzou Fan]

15 hours ago, BruceyB said:

First and foremost, what a treat this has been for fans two weeks into the college season. Hats off to all the teams and athletes for showing up and putting it on the line against a LOT of absolute studs. There were a lot of athletes in the field that could have likely gone into their conference tournaments with 2-3 losses on the season without this event and wound up taking 2 or 3 losses in one weekend by competing. It's all-too-often that we go into the new year and still haven't seen a majority of guys in the top 10 tested.

That said, I think it's obviously important not to overreact to the results from one weekend this early in the season. As I stated above, we often don't see guys like Facundo, Antrell, Hardy, McEnelly, Bailey, Figueroa, Sinclair, Ferrari, Merrill and on and on get tested before January. I'm hardly ready to guess where guys will end up 4 months from now. But it's been extremely fun to see where everyone is to "start" the season, and then see how things shake out in the end. Thanks to everyone for the company the past couple days. The finals should be great tonight!

 

Good summary!   Loved the duals 2 weeks into the season.  As a Mizzou fan I will say WOW!   What an improvement over the tough season last year.  Can't wait to see this young team develop over the course of the season.  Guys will improve and the Mendoza weight class will hopefully get addressed.  (I'll understand, but would hate to see Mendoza get redshirted.)

[PNWfan]

I don't think Antrell Taylor did much to dispel the notion that he is one of the weaker national champs in recent memory. Maybe he gets it turned around, but I don't think it is crazy to think he could be a returning national champ that doesn't AA the following year.

[WrestlingRash]

You can't become an AA at a dual. You can't become a NC at a dual. ESPN2 taking the rights from Flo sucked because I don't have ESPN2. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

You can't become an AA at a dual. You can't become a NC at a dual. ESPN2 taking the rights from Flo sucked because I don't have ESPN2. 

They didn't TAKE the rights away from anyone.  

I'm astounded at the number of people who are complaining about the finals being on ESPN 2, which seems to be a channel that most people have.  People acting like its a streaming membership!

I don't hear people complain like this during NCAA which is on the same platform. 

 

Edited November 17, 2025 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[nhs67]

20 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

No idea, sounds like 141 may not be an option with his weight currently or its going to be a hell of a pull, and I dont think they want to shelf Edmond for his senior year. That said Mendoza is 1000% a contender at 149 in my book.

Honestly, Edmond looked phenomenal at 70 KG (154lbs) at U23s.  If Conway is out, I think you see how he feels about 157lbs.

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, PNWfan said:

I don't think Antrell Taylor did much to dispel the notion that he is one of the weaker national champs in recent memory. Maybe he gets it turned around, but I don't think it is crazy to think he could be a returning national champ that doesn't AA the following year.

He got hurt in his Lehigh match.  I'm honestly not sure why he wrestled Cannon.

[nhs67]

17 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Shapiro?  As a true freshman he tied for the most bonus points in the 2024 NCAA tournament.  68% bonus rate.

Your stat is wrong.  He has 68% for the season.  His NCAA tournament bonus rate was 5 of 7, so 71% - an insane stat for a true frosh.

[juniorvarsity]

Iowa got one takedown against Ohio State during regulation throughout the entire dual.

[WrestlingRash]

51 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

They didn't TAKE the rights away from anyone.  

I'm astounded at the number of people who are complaining about the finals being on ESPN 2, which seems to be a channel that most people have.  People acting like its a streaming membership!

I don't hear people complain like this during NCAA which is on the same platform. 

 

Ok Boomer. Only old people have cable anymore. Yes, ESPN is a streaming service. 

[TNwrestling]

46 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

You can't become an AA at a dual. You can't become a NC at a dual. ESPN2 taking the rights from Flo sucked because I don't have ESPN2. 

This is the rhetoric that diminished the value of duals in college. Truth is being a good dual team doesn't guarantee you're the same caliber tournament team, and vice versa. We put emphasis in high school on duals and award state championships that are just as celebrated and as coveted as individual championships. 

 

NCAA duals should be recognized as equally significant as individual tournaments. And having this prize money as a reward is a great incentive to draw in the best teams. Does the qualifying process need to be revised? Probably. Should it be moved to later in the season? Yes. Is recognizing NCAA dual champions as actual national champions good for the sport of wrestling? ABSOLUTELY. Maybe you'd like to contribute to the growth of the sport...or find a new one perhaps?

 

Congratulations to the 2025 NCAA Dual Champions...THE Ohio State Buckeyes

[Pinnacle]

5 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

NCAA duals should be recognized as equally significant as individual tournaments. And having this prize money as a reward is a great incentive to draw in the best teams. Does the qualifying process need to be revised? Probably. Should it be moved to later in the season? Yes. Is recognizing NCAA dual champions as actual national champions good for the sport of wrestling? ABSOLUTELY. Maybe you'd like to contribute to the growth of the sport...or find a new one perhaps?

 

The NCAA has stated they will only award Wrestling one championship. It is an either/or situation, and there is a reason the Tournament as opposed to a Dual has decided 100 percent of the D1 Wrestling Championships.

The attendance and viewership simply do not back up your argument. 

Here is another thing. Almost all the duals this weekend were lopsided blowouts. This includes the final dual which effectively was over from a competition standpoint at 133. 

[TNwrestling]

4 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

 

The NCAA has stated they will only award Wrestling one championship. It is an either/or situation, and there is a reason the Tournament as opposed to a Dual has decided 100 percent of the D1 Wrestling Championships.

The attendance and viewership simply do not back up your argument. 

Here is another thing. Almost all the duals this weekend were lopsided blowouts. This includes the final dual which effectively was over from a competition standpoint at 133. 

Again, do things need to be changed? Yes. 

 

Should it still be recognized as an ncaa title? Also Yes. 

Edited November 17, 2025 by TNwrestling

[Pinnacle]

1 minute ago, TNwrestling said:

Again, do things need to be changed? Yes. 

 

Should it still be recognized as an ncaa title? Also Yes. 

So you don't want to replace the Tournament, you just prefer two Championships? 

[TNwrestling]

3 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

So you don't want to replace the Tournament, you just prefer two Championships? 

Not replace. Move dates, change the qualifying process, etc to ensure the best teams go. And yes, two championships.