Christian Pyles most disingenuous take.

[Gantry]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Who else bumps up for one match against someone that good?  Did Pendleton?  

Abas, Mark Schultz, Seth Gross... not many others.  Did any of them weigh a weight class less?

And who wins while doing it?

But that's a bad mark against Askren?  Crazy talk.

 

 

Sebastian Rivera bumped up to face #1 Micic, iirc he weighed in at 125 and was also introduced at that weight during handshakes to keep the element of surprise.  He lost, but respect....

Who did Mark Schultz bump up against?  

[fishbane]

On 7/22/2025 at 9:58 PM, BruceyB said:

I want you to answer genuinely. Whose career would you rather have?

4x finalist with over 90 career pins, 2 undefeated championship seasons and two Hodge trophies. (How many 4x finalists were there in the history of college wrestling in 2007?)

2x finalist, 0 undefeated seasons, 0 Hodge trophies, but you beat the guy above 6 out of 7 times during his first two years of competition?

I think an important part you are leaving out are the three team championships OSU won with Pendleton on the team.

[Hammerlock3]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

I think an important part you are leaving out are the three team championships OSU won with Pendleton on the team.

you're leaving out that one guy put a whole program on the map. 

[alex1fly]

12 hours ago, fishbane said:

I think an important part you are leaving out are the three team championships OSU won with Pendleton on the team.

He also left out the "I entered low level tournaments to bump up my pin count" bit

Also who cares about which career you'd rather have. It's about which wrestler should rep this fantasy team. If you're going for legacy and impact to the sport itself, Askren. His style changed the sport, his academy kids are crushing it, and he has influenced youth wrestling considerably in terms of training arcs. Not that Pendleton is a slouch - he helped OSU win nattys and is coaching D1 himself now. Though if you're going for who was the better wrestler during their time in D1, I have to go with Pendleton for the better fundamentals, a style that translates better to today, and winning 6/7 head to heads.

Regardless they're both incredible athletes and seem like really good dudes both for the sport and personally. It's been fun reliving those matchups thanks to this thread.

[fishbane]

2 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

Though if you're going for who was the better wrestler during their time in D1, I have to go with Pendleton for the better fundamentals, a style that translates better to today, and winning 6/7 head to heads.

To me the thing that sets Askren apart overall is that he made the Olympic team.  Pendleton never represented the US at the World/Olympics. Though he also had 2 freestyle wins over Askren.

As far as NCAA career I don't think Askren would prefer Pendleton's or vice versa.  I am sure a lot of wrestlers would choose Pendleton's.  The biggest advantage for Askren are the two Hodges and the finals appearance as a freshman.  Pendleton was pulled out of redshirt as a freshman after Ty Wilcox's injury.  That isn't the kind of thing that would have happened to Askren at Missouri, but at OSU they are competing for the team title every year and it was all hands on deck.  He might have had closer NCAA and Big 12 placements to Askren if he had been able to redshirt as a freshman.  If you compare years 3-5 in college they are pretty close.  The trade off was being part of 3 NCAA championship teams including a champ on the 5 champ team - one of the best in NCAA history.  OSU also won 4 Big 12 team titles and 3 national dual titles during Pendleton's career.  For all Askren did at Missouri they never won a major title as a team.  Not NCAAs, Big 12s, or National Duals.  Their biggest team accomplishment was finishing 3rd at NCAAs.  I think a lot of people would pick Pendleton's career and a lot would prefer Askren's.

[ScottishSteel]

2 hours ago, alex1fly said:

He also left out the "I entered low level tournaments to bump up my pin count" bit

Also who cares about which career you'd rather have. It's about which wrestler should rep this fantasy team. If you're going for legacy and impact to the sport itself, Askren. His style changed the sport, his academy kids are crushing it, and he has influenced youth wrestling considerably in terms of training arcs. Not that Pendleton is a slouch - he helped OSU win nattys and is coaching D1 himself now. Though if you're going for who was the better wrestler during their time in D1, I have to go with Pendleton for the better fundamentals, a style that translates better to today, and winning 6/7 head to heads.

Regardless they're both incredible athletes and seem like really good dudes both for the sport and personally. It's been fun reliving those matchups thanks to this thread.

Just wait until Oregon St wins a team natty under Pendleton!

[alex1fly]

6 hours ago, fishbane said:

To me the thing that sets Askren apart overall is that he made the Olympic team.  Pendleton never represented the US at the World/Olympics. Though he also had 2 freestyle wins over Askren.

As far as NCAA career I don't think Askren would prefer Pendleton's or vice versa.  I am sure a lot of wrestlers would choose Pendleton's.  The biggest advantage for Askren are the two Hodges and the finals appearance as a freshman.  Pendleton was pulled out of redshirt as a freshman after Ty Wilcox's injury.  That isn't the kind of thing that would have happened to Askren at Missouri, but at OSU they are competing for the team title every year and it was all hands on deck.  He might have had closer NCAA and Big 12 placements to Askren if he had been able to redshirt as a freshman.  If you compare years 3-5 in college they are pretty close.  The trade off was being part of 3 NCAA championship teams including a champ on the 5 champ team - one of the best in NCAA history.  OSU also won 4 Big 12 team titles and 3 national dual titles during Pendleton's career.  For all Askren did at Missouri they never won a major title as a team.  Not NCAAs, Big 12s, or National Duals.  Their biggest team accomplishment was finishing 3rd at NCAAs.  I think a lot of people would pick Pendleton's career and a lot would prefer Askren's.

Yeah they're both great wrestlers. Can't go wrong with either. The original quarter century team is for NCAA wrestling so you can't factor in international. I mean honestly its cool that two of the top picks for that weight overlapped at all.

 

[Hammerlock3]

the flo bros are heavily susceptible to every form of bias no matter how shallow. Take away the hodge's, stylistic influence, olympian status....all those dorks would vote for him just because he had funny hair.

[fishbane]

Wait they picked Askren in the top spot?  Did they forget about Carter Starocci?  

This made me watch the announcement video.  They didn't even mention Greg Jones or Ed Ruth.  Jones beat two of the guys they did mention Koscheck and Pendleton.  The only other champs they didn't mention at all were Robbie Lawler, Matt Brown, Myles Martin, and Dean Hamiti.  Ruth and Jones should have been included.

[1032004]

38 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Wait they picked Askren in the top spot?  Did they forget about Carter Starocci?  

This made me watch the announcement video.  They didn't even mention Greg Jones or Ed Ruth.  Jones beat two of the guys they did mention Koscheck and Pendleton.  The only other champs they didn't mention at all were Robbie Lawler, Matt Brown, Myles Martin, and Dean Hamiti.  Ruth and Jones should have been included.

Starocci won, but Pyles said he voted for Askren 

[1032004]

8 hours ago, fishbane said:

To me the thing that sets Askren apart overall is that he made the Olympic team.  Pendleton never represented the US at the World/Olympics. Though he also had 2 freestyle wins over Askren.

As far as NCAA career I don't think Askren would prefer Pendleton's or vice versa.  I am sure a lot of wrestlers would choose Pendleton's.  The biggest advantage for Askren are the two Hodges and the finals appearance as a freshman.  Pendleton was pulled out of redshirt as a freshman after Ty Wilcox's injury.  That isn't the kind of thing that would have happened to Askren at Missouri, but at OSU they are competing for the team title every year and it was all hands on deck.  He might have had closer NCAA and Big 12 placements to Askren if he had been able to redshirt as a freshman.  If you compare years 3-5 in college they are pretty close.  The trade off was being part of 3 NCAA championship teams including a champ on the 5 champ team - one of the best in NCAA history.  OSU also won 4 Big 12 team titles and 3 national dual titles during Pendleton's career.  For all Askren did at Missouri they never won a major title as a team.  Not NCAAs, Big 12s, or National Duals.  Their biggest team accomplishment was finishing 3rd at NCAAs.  I think a lot of people would pick Pendleton's career and a lot would prefer Askren's.

Just based on the stats (2-2-1-1 with 2 Hodges for Askren vs 3-1-1 for Pendleton), I think everyone would take Askren.  The no redshirt consideration is interesting though.

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Just based on the stats (2-2-1-1 with 2 Hodges for Askren vs 3-1-1 for Pendleton), I think everyone would take Askren.  The no redshirt consideration is interesting though.

no one is taking pendleton. its like jake rosholt vs pre scandal synder at this point.

[Air_Thurman]

49 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no one is taking pendleton. its like jake rosholt vs pre scandal synder at this point.

I’m taking Pendleton because I watched him dominant Askren time and time again. I know it’s crazy but I tend to think the better wrestler was the one who dominated the other. 

[Hammerlock3]

14 hours ago, Air_Thurman said:

I’m taking Pendleton because I watched him dominant Askren time and time again. I know it’s crazy but I tend to think the better wrestler was the one who dominated the other. 

yeah just like whoever beat john smith his sophmore year had a way better career.

[Air_Thurman]

4 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

yeah just like whoever beat john smith his sophmore year had a way better career.

I mean that is not even close to the same comparison and you know it. I don’t remember Jim beating John like 7 times throughout their career.

Ben and Chris were both two-time dominant champs and Chris dominated Askren on the mat. If you want to say Ben had the better career because he got to RS so he has one more AA fine. I just can’t unsee Chris dominating Ben 90% of the time the wrestled each other (and they wrestled each other a ton).

Edited 11 hours ago by Air_Thurman

[Hammerlock3]

2 hours ago, Air_Thurman said:

I mean that is not even close to the same comparison and you know it. I don’t remember Jim beating John like 7 times throughout their career.

Ben and Chris were both two-time dominant champs and Chris dominated Askren on the mat. If you want to say Ben had the better career because he got to RS so he has one more AA fine. I just can’t unsee Chris dominating Ben 90% of the time the wrestled each other (and they wrestled each other a ton).

askren beat pendleton also. odd you left that out.

[nhs67]

25 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

askren beat pendleton also. odd you left that out.

He gave Ben 10% credit.  That's about right...

[Cornell Kevin]

6 hours ago, Air_Thurman said:

I mean that is not even close to the same comparison and you know it. I don’t remember Jim beating John like 7 times throughout their career.

Ben and Chris were both two-time dominant champs and Chris dominated Askren on the mat. If you want to say Ben had the better career because he got to RS so he has one more AA fine. I just can’t unsee Chris dominating Ben 90% of the time the wrestled each other (and they wrestled each other a ton).

 

You cannot possibly compare Ben Askren junior/senior years to his freshman/sophomore years!  Or Askren’s junior/senior years to Pendleton’s junior/senior years for that matter….OR Pendlton’s Freshman/sophomore years with Askren’s Freshman/sophomore years because there is no comparison!!!

 

Askren Fresh/soph (2nd/2nd)

Pendleton Fresh/soph (DNP/3rd)

 

Someone in this thread is suggesting that Askren didn’t jump levels from his first two years to his second? he had two of the most dominating years back to back that we have ever seen.  Let’s not pretend that the Askren that beat Herbert 14-2 is the Askren Pendleton faced, come on!!  The Askren that won 

87 straight matches including bumping up a weight to take out Kish who was ranked #1 at the

time at the weight above. 

 

Two Hodge Trophies, 87 in a row 

87-0…54 pins, 11 techs, 12 majors, 2 fft and only 8 decisions.  He had 79 bonus wins in 87 attempts 90.8%

 

In back to back years he had the 4th and 5th most dominant season ever

1. Cael Sr.        5.500
2. Zain JR.       5.357
3. Neal Sr.        5.341
4. Askren Sr.   5.333
5. Askren Jr.    5.311

 

 You can talk about one freestyle match all you want but when it came to the 06 and 07 Askren, he was unstoppable at Folkstyle. Askren did beat Pendleton once even as an underclassmen.  

 

The numbers I just threw at you were no where near what Ben did as a fresh and soph.  You cannot convince me that Ben didn’t

take an enormous leap after Pendleton graduated.  

 

Peak JR/SR Askren years > Peak

JR/SR Pendleton years when he beat FR/SOPH Askren. 

 

Just the same FR/SOPH Askren > FR/SOPH Pendleton 

 

OR 

 

Career Askren (2-2-1-1)94 falls >

Career Pendleton (DNP-3-1-1)

 

At the very least you cannot suggest that Pendleton above Askren based on the matches Peak Pendleton had vs Young Askren. 

[okokzach]

58 minutes ago, Cornell Kevin said:

At the very least you cannot suggest that Pendleton above Askren based on the matches Peak Pendleton had vs Young Askren.

Nothing you said suggests Ben would've beat Pendleton if he had to face him again. Of course Ben's stats improved after he didn't get handed 3-4 losses each year from Pendleton. Plus the fact that he sought out extra matches against lower level guys for the express purpose of padding his stats. 

You're also ignoring the fact that Ben redshirted and Chris didn't. In their second year on campus, they both lost once at NCAAs and then won the next two years. Give Chris that non-RS year back and he's a 3x champ and Ben is a 1x champ and this isn't even a discussion. 

Edited 3 hours ago by okokzach