Bob Nicolls publicly calling out Jordan Williams and Gabe Arnold (Bo related?)

[pokemonster]

2 hours ago, BAC said:

As it is, there's a truckload of evidence of racial disparity in NIL deals.  It's a basically legalized discrimination.  Which is ironic, considering that part of the argument that got us here in the first place was that the NCAA was operating a "plantation" to get "free black labor," etc etc.

But whatever.  This is the universe people wanted, and that's what they got.  

Wasn't Carter Starocci the self proclaimed highed paid wrestler? Not saying it isn't true, but where's the evidence that there's some sort of racism at play with the NIL deals? Anecdotally, my buddy worked at Ohio State's collective, and I got a peak at the football spreadsheet. It was absurd with the numbers listed, but didn't look to be any discrimination going on with the names I saw. 

Edited yesterday at 05:31 AM by pokemonster

[BAC]

Are you really sure your "peak at the football spreadsheet" of a single collective told the full story?

Some info here, here, here, here.

While 52% of Division I athletes are people of color, they only received 16% of the total NIL compensation as of a couple years ago. 

[H82Lose]

12 hours ago, nhs67 said:

When you post it in a pompous, threatingly way.

meehhh, most don't like Bo in general, if this was done by Yianni or any other perceived "Good Guy" people would not be as upset. I did not read the article, but him telling them to get their crap together, be a D1 athlete, is not a bad thing. Have you watched any of Jordan's Instagram posts? Folks are worried about him. I am not saying Bo's words will save him, but I don't think anything is out of line at this point. 

[1032004]

10 hours ago, BAC said:

 

As it is, there's a truckload of evidence of racial disparity in NIL deals.  It's a basically legalized discrimination. 

Can you share some of this evidence? I’m skeptical of that claim.

And are you talking about within wrestling or in general? 

[Dogbone]

11 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

So Nicolls is talking like he runs the program at the same time Brands is telling Bassett's mom to not tell him how to run the program?

Did I follow along correctly today? 

Yep, the guy who is paying seven figures annually has a say and the guy who is receiving the money does not. 

I know it was a joke, but that is how the world works.  Thou who has the gold, makes the rules. 

We all have bosses.  And as Williams and Gabe are finding out, its never good to piss off the guy who signs your checks. 

[1032004]

7 hours ago, BAC said:

Are you really sure your "peak at the football spreadsheet" of a single collective told the full story?

Some info here, here, here, here.

While 52% of Division I athletes are people of color, they only received 16% of the total NIL compensation as of a couple years ago. 

The last three links are specific to women.  I’d agree that I’m sure there is probably a racial disparity in women’s sports, but I think that’s more due to the fact that unfortunately it seems a lot of women athletes’ NIL value is derived just as much from their sex appeal as their athletic ability.  And white women appeal to a larger audience because there’s more white people…

The first link is just some google survey, and looks like it’s only about “expectations.”  Also it says the three sports represented the most are track, soccer, and lacrosse.  Or is your comment referring to sports other than football & basketball?  I guess that’s possible, but I’d bet football & men’s basketball account for like 90% of total NIL dollars spent or something.

[Pinnacle]

19 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Yep, the guy who is paying seven figures annually has a say and the guy who is receiving the money does not. 

I know it was a joke, but that is how the world works.  Thou who has the gold, makes the rules. 

We all have bosses.  And as Williams and Gabe are finding out, its never good to piss off the guy who signs your checks. 

 

You are implying that Bob Nicolls is running the show. Do you also believe he tells Brands when to jump? If he does then that is a problem imo.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Bob has donated well into the 8 figures to Iowa wrestling.  His name is on the wrestling room and he signs all the NIL checks...I don't disagree that he deserves to call the shots, but I just disagree with him doing public callouts of wrestlers on the Iowa messageboards.

[AgaveMaria]

14 hours ago, Coastal said:

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he's calling out the lifestyles of two of the potential three African-Americans on the roster.

How many times has he been sued for racial discrimination in his rentals?

Do you think he would call out Charlize Theron or Elon Musk over something - both "African Americans".

Maybe it is just those he feels are having problems that bring public scrutiny that is not positive?

[1032004]

14 hours ago, Coastal said:

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he's calling out the lifestyles of two of the potential three African-Americans on the roster.

How many times has he been sued for racial discrimination in his rentals?

Well one of them just got arrested, so I think that one is pretty self-explanatory.  Not sure about Arnold, I have seen him be accused of partying as well, but no clue if there’s truth to that.

Bob may be racist, but I don’t think that post was.  Now ScrapLife’s Don Beshada’s post from 2020 on the other hand… (but he did apologize at least)

Edited yesterday at 03:04 PM by 1032004

[ionel]

32 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Bob has donated well into the 8 figures to Iowa wrestling.  

It ain't working correct?  

[Lordnelson]

Not a problem I have but if I was donating millions to a program for facilities and specifically NIL, I'd 100 percent be having a say on where things are headed.  I'm sorry but the "they're just kids" thing goes out the window the minute they take any money beyond the traditional "full" scholarship.  You're an athlete that gets paid=you're a pro whether the organization labels you that or not.

Get out of the bars and in the weight room.  Tom, you better threaten PSU competitively or I'm gonna say something.  

I'm sure Tom and Terry serving their share of "bosses" is maddening.  It's everywhere in government structured/educational institutions.  He probably had enough of the Bassetts and decided he didn't need another boss.  Can't blame him there.  

But also, you just lost a top recruit in the modern landscape, again.  Better figure it out quick bro.

 

[Dogbone]

1 hour ago, Pinnacle said:

 

You are implying that Bob Nicolls is running the show. Do you also believe he tells Brands when to jump? If he does then that is a problem imo.

No, I am not implying Bob is running the show. I am saying his status within the Iowa program is different than Bill Bassetts so they are treated differently.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

9 hours ago, BAC said:

Are you really sure your "peak at the football spreadsheet" of a single collective told the full story?

Some info here, here, here, here.

While 52% of Division I athletes are people of color, they only received 16% of the total NIL compensation as of a couple years ago. 

Your first link specifically says: "Even though this study demonstrates BIPOC athletes are involved with NIL deals at higher rates than white athletes, it is unclear if that means they are having the same level of “success.”"

Another damning point about this study is it does not come close to representing where the NIL $s are spent. While there are some basketball players (7% - 8th most by sport) and a handful of football players (2.1% - 16th most), it basically ignores where the money is actually spent.

Finally, it is a study of expectations rather than actual deals.

[nhs67]

2 hours ago, H82Lose said:

meehhh, most don't like Bo in general, if this was done by Yianni or any other perceived "Good Guy" people would not be as upset. I did not read the article, but him telling them to get their crap together, be a D1 athlete, is not a bad thing. Have you watched any of Jordan's Instagram posts? Folks are worried about him. I am not saying Bo's words will save him, but I don't think anything is out of line at this point. 

Most don't like Bo, or Bob?

The statement is technically true either way as the general public of over eight billion people don't even know who either of them are.  Since they do not know him/them they cannot like him/them.

That said, I don't think most people who are aware of Bo dislike him.

Most people who are aware of Bob do dislike him.

[BAC]

30 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Your first link specifically says: "Even though this study demonstrates BIPOC athletes are involved with NIL deals at higher rates than white athletes, it is unclear if that means they are having the same level of “success.”"

Another damning point about this study is it does not come close to representing where the NIL $s are spent. While there are some basketball players (7% - 8th most by sport) and a handful of football players (2.1% - 16th most), it basically ignores where the money is actually spent.

Finally, it is a study of expectations rather than actual deals.

It seems unlike you to cherry-pick the way that you are here. 

This basic issue is that, while black folks are (and long have been) disproportionately represented in college athletics, and therefore NIL participation, they receive a disproportionately low share of the dollars.  Why are you mentioning only the first part of that equation, and not the second?  

Regarding the first study, yes, "BIPOC athletes are involved with NIL deals at higher rates than white athletes."  But oddly, you omit that BIPOC athletes are "less likely to be involved with more than one deal as opposed to white athletes," which evidences "disparity conditional on race." 

Later data bears this out.  Per one of the other articles linked above:  "According to data from Opendorse, a leading NIL technology company, while 52% of Division I athletes are people of color, they only received 16% of the total NIL compensation between July 2021 and June 2022."  Another examination (here) shows white athletes averaged ~$1,332 per Instagram post, while Black athletes averaged only ~$276 per post.  The differences persist even when you control for social media following.

Reasonable people can debate what other factors contribute to this disparity and whether anything ought to be done about it, but I've never heard anyone dispute there is a clear racial disparity in the distribution of NIL benefits in college athletics. But if you're disputing that, I'd be curious to hear what you're relying on.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, BAC said:

It seems unlike you to cherry-pick the way that you are here. 

This basic issue is that, while black folks are (and long have been) disproportionately represented in college athletics, and therefore NIL participation, they receive a disproportionately low share of the dollars.  Why are you mentioning only the first part of that equation, and not the second?  

Regarding the first study, yes, "BIPOC athletes are involved with NIL deals at higher rates than white athletes."  But oddly, you omit that BIPOC athletes are "less likely to be involved with more than one deal as opposed to white athletes," which evidences "disparity conditional on race." 

Later data bears this out.  Per one of the other articles linked above:  "According to data from Opendorse, a leading NIL technology company, while 52% of Division I athletes are people of color, they only received 16% of the total NIL compensation between July 2021 and June 2022."  Another examination (here) shows white athletes averaged ~$1,332 per Instagram post, while Black athletes averaged only ~$276 per post.  The differences persist even when you control for social media following.

Reasonable people can debate what other factors contribute to this disparity and whether anything ought to be done about it, but I've never heard anyone dispute there is a clear racial disparity in the distribution of NIL benefits in college athletics. But if you're disputing that, I'd be curious to hear what you're relying on.  

Because the study has no information on what they receive. And because the study is massively under-represented in the sports that receive the most. 

Another point the author makes is that for non-revenue sports it is important to have a social media presence, but that does not seem to matter for revenue sports. The obvious reason is that with a huge television presence, revenue sport athletes do not need social media to cash in. Then it comes down to what positions are most valued. Quarterback, wide receiver, rush lineman. So whatever the intersection of racial mix and on-field production for those positions are, is the real determinant. Any study that does not cover or account for those things is deeply flawed.

[BAC]

9 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Because the study has no information on what they receive. And because the study is massively under-represented in the sports that receive the most. 

Another point the author makes is that for non-revenue sports it is important to have a social media presence, but that does not seem to matter for revenue sports. The obvious reason is that with a huge television presence, revenue sport athletes do not need social media to cash in. Then it comes down to what positions are most valued. Quarterback, wide receiver, rush lineman. So whatever the intersection of racial mix and on-field production for those positions are, is the real determinant. Any study that does not cover or account for those things is deeply flawed.

These are strange critiques. Of course the study doesn't give raw numbers:  it isn't measuring "what they receive" but rather the variation among groups. Besides, it's one early study. You mention none of the others and cite none of your own, or any article or evidence that race is a non-factor. Your football-specific assertion that the "real determinant" of NIL dollars is which "positions are most valued" and "on-field production," while race is irrelevant, is entirely unsupported and, candidly, astonishingly naive.

[Wrestleknownothing]

21 minutes ago, BAC said:

These are strange critiques. Of course the study doesn't give raw numbers:  it isn't measuring "what they receive" but rather the variation among groups. Besides, it's one early study. You mention none of the others and cite none of your own, or any article or evidence that race is a non-factor. Your football-specific assertion that the "real determinant" of NIL dollars is which "positions are most valued" and "on-field production," while race is irrelevant, is entirely unsupported and, candidly, astonishingly naive.

It doesn't give raw numbers because the author doesn't have any. It doesn't measure variation in outcomes among groups. It measures variation in expectations among groups. Those are two VERY different things. And it states BIPOC expectations are 1.6x higher than white athletes. Nothing to do with outcomes. 

And the gap in expectations cited was $400 between men and women based on an $800 expectation for men. What they measure is not even rounding error.

I did not mention the others because after clicking on this one I did not feel the need to click on the others. One bad example was enough.

I have cited nothing of my own because the only claim I am making is that the claim you made is not supported by the study you cited.

[BAC]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not mention the others because after clicking on this one I did not feel the need to click on the others. One bad example was enough.

The trends identified by that study are backed up by later analysis and I'm aware of no studies that cut the other way.  Neither are you.

I don't even agree with your critiques about this study, as you're still cherry picking the findings, and there's nothing wrong with using predictive methodologies.

It reminds me of climate change denier and anti-vaxxers, plucking a single early study and saying "well that has insufficient data so I'm not gonna look at anything later, it must all be BS."

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have cited nothing of my own because the only claim I am making is that the claim you made is not supported by the study you cited.

And yet you are making factual assertions about what the "real determinant" of NIL dollars is, and asserting  that those "real determinants" are race neutral.  So much for insisting on reliable data.

[CHROMEBIRD]

NIL deals to date have been so opaque, it's hard to get a representative picture either way. The clearinghouse is supposed to remedy this to an extent, but who knows. There will always be loopholes and gaps.

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, BAC said:

The trends identified by that study are backed up by later analysis and I'm aware of no studies that cut the other way.  Neither are you.

I don't even agree with your critiques about this study, as you're still cherry picking the findings, and there's nothing wrong with using predictive methodologies.

It reminds me of climate change denier and anti-vaxxers, plucking a single early study and saying "well that has insufficient data so I'm not gonna look at anything later, it must all be BS."

And yet you are making factual assertions about what the "real determinant" of NIL dollars is, and asserting  that those "real determinants" are race neutral.  So much for insisting on reliable data.

Are you really trying to claim you have not seen credible statements that the vast majority of all NIL money goes to football, and that QB's, WR, and DE's get the vast majority of that?

Who is being naïve now?

[BAC]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Are you really trying to claim you have not seen credible statements that the vast majority of all NIL money goes to football, and that QB's, WR, and DE's get the vast majority of that?

Huh?  Are you sure you're responding to the right person?

What I said, with numerous citations (and I can provide dozens more), is there is a clear racial disparity in the distribution of NIL benefits in college athletics, in that black people receive a disproportionately low share of NIL dollars relative to their participation.  Reread my comments.

If you'd like to dispute that with actual credible evidence rather than just your say-so, and without changing the subject, feel free.

[Caveira]

15 minutes ago, BAC said:

Huh?  Are you sure you're responding to the right person?

What I said, with numerous citations (and I can provide dozens more), is there is a clear racial disparity in the distribution of NIL benefits in college athletics, in that black people receive a disproportionately low share of NIL dollars relative to their participation.  Reread my comments.

If you'd like to dispute that with actual credible evidence rather than just your say-so, and without changing the subject, feel free.

Here’s an enhanced breakdown of NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) earnings in U.S. college sports—covering which sports earn the most, and how payouts differ by gender:

---

Sports Receiving the Most NIL Compensation

By Sport (Total Compensation)

• Football: Leads by far—accounts for 45–55% of all NIL moneymarketingbrew.com+15on3.com+15boardroom.tv+15on3.com.

• Men’s Basketball: Typically second—around 15–21% of the totalnilcertifiedathlete.com+6frontofficesports.com+6athletebrandsnil.com+6.

• Women’s Basketball: Earns 18–26%, making it the top female-earning sport businessinsider.com.

• Women’s Volleyball: Takes about 6–8%, sometimes ranking third in number of dealsen.wikipedia.org+15on3.com+15on3.com+15.

• Other sports (baseball, softball, gymnastics, etc.) share the remainder:

  • Baseball: ~3.6% nypost.com+14frontofficesports.com+14houstonchronicle.com+14.

  • Gymnastics can be highly lucrative per top athlete, even if its total share is smaller .

Football & Basketball: Black Dominance in Top Deals

• Many of the highest-paid NIL stars are Black. For example, three of the top five NIL earners in 2022–23—Bronny James, Shedeur Sanders, and Caleb Williams—are Black and each earned well over $2 millionmarketbeat.com+14researchgate.net+14swishappeal.com+14.

• Black athletes are overrepresented in these revenue-driving sports (e.g., ~47% of FBS football and ~59% of DI men’s basketball rosters) .

[Coastal]

32 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Are you really trying to claim you have not seen credible statements that the vast majority of all NIL money goes to football, and that QB's, WR, and DE's get the vast majority of that?

Who is being naïve now?

By far the biggest NIL beneficiary has been a female gymnast.

The second largest was a female basketball player.

Edited yesterday at 06:50 PM by Coastal