due process

[JimmySpeaks]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 But they certainly don’t “obviously mean MS-13” 

Derp 

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

They could mean MS 13.  But I’d have thought we would have been able to find someone else in MS 13 with the same tattoo then 

the biden admin should have tons of data on this...

oh wait

[1032004]

41 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

oh, i thought we were talking about the legality. i didn't realize we moved on to how you personally feel about it. 

A conversation can have multiple pieces to it.  Yes, the main point is the legality, so it doesn’t matter whether or not he’s a bad guy.

But since people keep insisting that does matter, I added my opinion.

Also, even if he is a bad guy, that doesn’t mean he is in MS-13 which is the reason he was sent to CECOT.

Keep in mind, Bukele moved him out of CECOT.  To me that indicates they’re not convinced he’s in MS-13.

[Caveira]

Anyone hear the 2020 audio of the illegal aliens wife pleading a judge to protect her…. That he beat her repeatedly?   

[Caveira]

 

[Scouts Honor]

[Scouts Honor]

 

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

 

... but but but ...

[Lipdrag]

3 hours ago, ionel said:

... but but but ...

Channeling my inner RV:  "Maybe Garcia was a trafficker but no one has proven those were humans.  Prove it.  Did you take DNA and do you have it in jars in your refrigerator?  ANSWER MY QUESTION!  Strawmen are tanking."

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

Channeling my inner RV:  "Maybe Garcia was a trafficker but no one has proven those were humans.  Prove it.  Did you take DNA and do you have it in jars in your refrigerator?  ANSWER MY QUESTION!  Strawmen are tanking."

I heard they were Androids.  Human claim just another Trump lie.   Prove me wrong.

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, ionel said:

... but but but ...

All of you with the seeming inability to not understand the simple fact that, in our country, one of the founding tenets is that everybody is entitled to due process, i.e. the government can put forward evidence in court of law.  So Charlie Kirk finding a video from a traffic stop where he wasn't arrested in TENNESSEE (not exactly a bastion of liberalness) as evidence of another crime that he wasn't charged with doesn't mean anything.  If you have evidence that is real and holds up to scrutiny, put it in front of a court.  That's how our system is supposed to work.  Not just a random group with no scrutiny just deciding who gets sent to a prison in another country, a prison designed for terrorists whom local El Salvadoran officials have boasted that "nobody leaves unless it's in a coffin".  That lack of belief in America and basic humanity is startling.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

All of you with the seeming inability to not understand the simple fact that, in our country, one of the founding tenets is that everybody is entitled to due process, i.e. the government can put forward evidence in court of law.  So Charlie Kirk finding a video from a traffic stop where he wasn't arrested in TENNESSEE (not exactly a bastion of liberalness) as evidence of another crime that he wasn't charged with doesn't mean anything.  If you have evidence that is real and holds up to scrutiny, put it in front of a court.  That's how our system is supposed to work.  Not just a random group with no scrutiny just deciding who gets sent to a prison in another country, a prison designed for terrorists whom local El Salvadoran officials have boasted that "nobody leaves unless it's in a coffin".  That lack of belief in America and basic humanity is startling.

Then explain Obama.

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Then explain Obama.

Why, is he president?

[ionel]

Just now, VakAttack said:

Why, is he president?

No but if everybody gets due process all the time for everything then explain what loop hole Obama found to deport so many and conduct drone assasination strikes.  Reason being is then Trump can use said loop hole and everybody will be happy.  

[Scouts Honor]

17 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Why, is he president?

he was... and did the same thing on a grander scale

yet know wailing and gnashing of teeth

[VakAttack]

15 minutes ago, ionel said:

No but if everybody gets due process all the time for everything then explain what loop hole Obama found to deport so many and conduct drone assasination strikes.  Reason being is then Trump can use said loop hole and everybody will be happy.  

...I don't care, I didn't vote for Obama in either election (McCain in 08, Johnson in 12), and criticize away.  He's not president right now though, so I don't care what he did 15 years ago anywhere near as much as I do about the people being harmed right now, in this moment.

[Gene Mills Fan]

24 minutes ago, ionel said:

Then explain Obama.

Then read about Clinton.

On September 30, 1996, President Bill Clinton signed the "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM AND IMMIGRANT RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1996"

IIRAIRA established expedited removal, in which immigration officials gained the authority to summarily remove certain aliens.^[39] This is different from the expedited removal proceedings for aliens convicted of aggravated felonies. Aliens subject to expedited removal include aliens "who are inadmissible because they lack valid entry documents or have sought admission through fraud (may also include aliens inadmissible on same grounds if they are present in the United States without being admitted or paroled and have been in the country less than two years)".^[40]

Expedited removals can be considered removals without hearings: these removals do not require judicial review by immigration judges within the Executive Office of Immigration Review unless the individual plans to apply for asylum or indicates fear of persecution.^[41][42] Therefore, aliens subject to expedited removal do not have the right to administrative review or the right to administrative appeal and judicial review.^[40] Because expedited removals do not require judicial or administrative review, aliens who are subject to expedited removals are not afforded the right to an attorney during their interviews with immigration officials.^[40]

Is this the LOOPHOLE? I  asked a few times.

 

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

...I don't care, I didn't vote for Obama in either election (McCain in 08, Johnson in 12), and criticize away.  He's not president right now though, so I don't care what he did 15 years ago anywhere near as much as I do about the people being harmed right now, in this moment.

We had pretty much the same laws and constitution back then.  I just want to know the loophole so we can expedite the deportations today.  

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

We had pretty much the same laws and constitution back then.  I just want to know the loophole so we can expedite the deportations today.  

Maybe you should find evidence of something before establishing that something is a fact.  And maybe stop trying to to divert attention from the current, very real illegal things the current administration is doing in sending these people, the vast majority of which do not have any serious criminal record, to a prison where they have no idea when (or even if) they'll ever be released.

[1032004]

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

 

So more evidence he’s not a great guy, but does nothing to help prove the claim that he’s MS-13, which as a reminder is the reason he was sent to CECOT

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So more evidence he’s not a great guy, but does nothing to help prove the claim that he’s MS-13, which as a reminder is the reason he was sent to CECOT

Obviously, he should be brought home and have his day in court, but the issue is far larger than Garcia himself. 

There is no debate on this: the administration broke the law. There must be accountability for that or they'll keep doing it.

 

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

All of you with the seeming inability to not understand the simple fact that, in our country, one of the founding tenets is that everybody is entitled to due process, i.e. the government can put forward evidence in court of law.  So Charlie Kirk finding a video from a traffic stop where he wasn't arrested in TENNESSEE (not exactly a bastion of liberalness) as evidence of another crime that he wasn't charged with doesn't mean anything.  If you have evidence that is real and holds up to scrutiny, put it in front of a court.  That's how our system is supposed to work.  Not just a random group with no scrutiny just deciding who gets sent to a prison in another country, a prison designed for terrorists whom local El Salvadoran officials have boasted that "nobody leaves unless it's in a coffin".  That lack of belief in America and basic humanity is startling.

Here are the estimated numbers of deportations without full due process (such as expedited removal) per U.S. president:

1. Jimmy Carter (1977–1981): ~1.5 million

2. Ronald Reagan (1981–1989): ~2.7 million

3. George H. W. Bush (1989–1993): ~1.3 million

4. Bill Clinton (1993–2001): ~12 million

5. George W. Bush (2001–2009): ~2 million

6. Barack Obama (2009–2017): ~2.5 million

7. Donald Trump (2017–2021): ~900,000–1 million

8. Joe Biden (2021–Present): Significantly lower compared to previous presidents, though exact numbers are variable and less focused on expedited removals.

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

So more evidence he’s not a great guy, but does nothing to help prove the claim that he’s MS-13, which as a reminder is the reason he was sent to CECOT

if you haven't figured it out yet..

he's MS 13

[1032004]

19 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

if you haven't figured it out yet..

he's MS 13

Based on the word of a criminal informant and a dirty cop 

[VakAttack]

22 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

if you haven't figured it out yet..

he's MS 13

Then prove it in court.  If it's so obvious, seems like a slam dunk to just give the man the hearing he (and others) are entitled to.