Weigh-ins

[NYupstate]

I am a new wrestling fan (I didn't wrestle when I was young). My 14 yr old son got into it this year and drew my interest along.

There are many things I find to appreciate about the sport - overall fitness, mental toughness/resiliance, work ethic development, etc - you guys know the list. But as a newbie I cannot wrap my mind around the rationale for weigh-ins hours before a match. Why not put a scale mat-side and weigh-in right there in front of the crowd? Is it just tradition that keeps it as it is?

Please enlighten me.

[Gene Mills Fan]

there used to be cheeks exposed

[Dark Energy]

Your question is so fundamentally basic and simple.  The answers you get will either 1) point to logistics difficulties, 2) worry about too many forfeits, or 3) in a subtle way defend weight cutting.

My perspective - there is no good answer.  The scales should be matside.  Weight in can occur when on double deck.  Fosters wrestling at a more natural weight.  

[nhs67]

The conference that Detroit Catholic Central (Amines, Iowa State's Rojas, Michigan/Indiana's Gilcher, etc) is in used to do matside weigh-ins some 20+ years ago.  They don't anymore, but did for 3 or 4 years.

What DCC ended up doing is they started sending their 'B' squad to all conference meets/tournaments, which is something they still were doing up until a couple years ago (even though the conference doesn't do it anymore).

DCC has been a Top 25 program in the nation for decades.  They wouldn't have been had they followed those sort of weigh-in rules for their 'A' Team.

The schools competing at the highest levels will never consider it unless forced.

[jross]

3 hours ago, NYupstate said:

I am a new wrestling fan (I didn't wrestle when I was young). My 14 yr old son got into it this year and drew my interest along.

There are many things I find to appreciate about the sport - overall fitness, mental toughness/resiliance, work ethic development, etc - you guys know the list. But as a newbie I cannot wrap my mind around the rationale for weigh-ins hours before a match. Why not put a scale mat-side and weigh-in right there in front of the crowd? Is it just tradition that keeps it as it is?

Please enlighten me.

Mat side weigh-ins is healthier for their bodies and fairer for the competition.  The best case against is the logistics / costs in weighing people in repeatedly.  Its a weak excuse.  Maybe the admins / coaches care more about fielding all the weights than they do their wrestlers?  Its certainly felt that way with every coach I've encountered that pretends making weight is magic.

[wrestle87]

Yours is a great question, and you should not stop asking it.  

[D3 for LU]

9 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The conference that Detroit Catholic Central (Amines, Iowa State's Rojas, Michigan/Indiana's Gilcher, etc) is in used to do matside weigh-ins some 20+ years ago.  They don't anymore, but did for 3 or 4 years.

What DCC ended up doing is they started sending their 'B' squad to all conference meets/tournaments, which is something they still were doing up until a couple years ago (even though the conference doesn't do it anymore).

DCC has been a Top 25 program in the nation for decades.  They wouldn't have been had they followed those sort of weigh-in rules for their 'A' Team.

The schools competing at the highest levels will never consider it unless forced.

IF they been tripled dog dared into doing it...

... would they? 

D3

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, D3 for LU said:

IF they been tripled dog dared into doing it...

... would they? 

D3

woah!   

[Elevator]

A counter consideration is personal privacy - guys step on the scale with underwear (and in some cases no underwear) and now we have girls/women wrestling.   

[11986]

9 minutes ago, Elevator said:

A counter consideration is personal privacy - guys step on the scale with underwear (and in some cases no underwear) and now we have girls/women wrestling.   

I thought one of the ideas was that matside weigh-ins would be in singlet, maybe even with the shoes on....weigh-in, go wrestle....

Edited Thursday at 02:22 PM by 11986

[nhs67]

9 minutes ago, Elevator said:

A counter consideration is personal privacy - guys step on the scale with underwear (and in some cases no underwear) and now we have girls/women wrestling.   

The counter to this is to use the same rules they use in MFS/MGR/WFS.  Singlets.

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, 11986 said:

I thought one of the ideas was that matside weigh-ins would be in singlet, maybe even with the shoes on....weight-in, go wrestle....

Shoes weigh 13lbs, clearly.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

23 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Shoes weigh 13lbs, clearly.

And if everyone is wearing shoes, it cancels out!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

24 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The counter to this is to use the same rules they use in MFS/MGR/WFS.  Singlets.

I believe that is the current NFHS requirement.

[Husker U]

Wrestlers now have to weigh-in wearing their singlets.  

[Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Your question is so fundamentally basic and simple.  The answers you get will either 1) point to logistics difficulties, 2) worry about too many forfeits, or 3) in a subtle way defend weight cutting.

My perspective - there is no good answer.  The scales should be matside.  Weight in can occur when on double deck.  Fosters wrestling at a more natural weight.  

Give everyone a 1 lb. allowance to avoid forfeits and weight-cutting. There - I solved it!

[Dark Energy]

This weight cutting crap is a black eye on the sport.  Unhealthy.  Saps enjoyment.  

[WrestlingRash]

2 hours ago, jross said:

Mat side weigh-ins is healthier for their bodies and fairer for the competition.  The best case against is the logistics / costs in weighing people in repeatedly.  Its a weak excuse.  Maybe the admins / coaches care more about fielding all the weights than they do their wrestlers?  Its certainly felt that way with every coach I've encountered that pretends making weight is magic.

the quality of wrestling will go down when people are starving themselves and not drinking water during competition days so they can make weight. 

matside weighins are much less healthy. 

[jross]

32 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

the quality of wrestling will go down when people are starving themselves and not drinking water during competition days so they can make weight. 

matside weighins are much less healthy. 

I agree, and that's why this works!  The wrestlers starving through matches will end up injured or losing against their healthier opponents.  The struggle forces them to adapt, and the group ends up stronger overall.  Cutting might decrease by 80% within 2 seasons?  Its worth the try... and evolve if it fails.

[boconnell]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Mat side weigh-ins is healthier for their bodies and fairer for the competition.  The best case against is the logistics / costs in weighing people in repeatedly.  Its a weak excuse.  Maybe the admins / coaches care more about fielding all the weights than they do their wrestlers?  Its certainly felt that way with every coach I've encountered that pretends making weight is magic.

It's interesting that you directly equate kids weighing in an hour before to coaches not caring about their wrestlers.  

[boconnell]

47 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

This weight cutting crap is a black eye on the sport.  Unhealthy.  Saps enjoyment.  

Is it a black eye for MMA, Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, kick boxing, power lifting, rowing, horse racing, sprint football, and youth football?

I might seriously coach the HS team that cuts the least weight in the entire state of washington.  I have no attachment to weight cutting, but vilifying it is silly.

[NYupstate]

43 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

the quality of wrestling will go down when people are starving themselves and not drinking water during competition days so they can make weight. 

matside weighins are much less healthy. 

That's what I thought would happen. The guys who don't cut to make weight would then kick the pants off someone who dropped 6 or 8, especially later in the day of a tournament.

I think it would eliminate a lot of the unhealthy levels of cutting. There would be no way to be strong if one is walking around dehydrated trying to stay light.

[WrestlingRash]

12 minutes ago, NYupstate said:

That's what I thought would happen. The guys who don't cut to make weight would then kick the pants off someone who dropped 6 or 8, especially later in the day of a tournament.

I think it would eliminate a lot of the unhealthy levels of cutting. There would be no way to be strong if one is walking around dehydrated trying to stay light.

wrestlers have never been accused of being smart

[Jim L]

18 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Is it a black eye for MMA, Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, kick boxing, power lifting, rowing, horse racing, sprint football, and youth football?

I might seriously coach the HS team that cuts the least weight in the entire state of washington.  I have no attachment to weight cutting, but vilifying it is silly.

Most of those sports are not sponsored by US high schools, so this lead to a relatively small number of athletes participating.

Even at the senior level, athletes in those sports do not cut the amount wrestlers do, with the exception of MMA.

[jross]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

It's interesting that you directly equate kids weighing in an hour before to coaches not caring about their wrestlers.  

I could go softer and say they don't understand the power behind their authority when discussing weight.  If I'm 160 pounds, and the coach says we need you at 145lbs... its a problem.  If the wrestler says I can't and the coach says... but you were 153lb last Friday... just go about it the right way.  I'm sure you can do it.  Then has you weigh in daily and work extra before/after school...  Yea the coach wants you to win, and they want to win.  The coach isn't saying... you know what... you should wrestle 160lbs.  Let's get a nutrition plan and we'll get you down to 145lb over the course of 12 months, if that's what you want, and here are the trade offs (e.g. lost strength, more quickness, etc.).  The coach cares... its just their words can result in bad outcomes.  Or just allowing a wrestler to self-select to wrestle lower weights... when they see the newly sunken cheeks and low energy... come on coach!  Coaching has more responsibility beyond teaching moves and mental strength.

Edited Thursday at 06:01 PM by jross