Hendrickson wins Hodge

[ionel]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

Whom did you and tens of thousands of others call Captain America before KS?

He said "tons" that could be only 4,000.  Don't exaggerate. 

[MPhillips]

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

He said "tons" that could be only 4,000.  Don't exaggerate. 

Very true.

I'll never forget calling Lance Armstrong or Brian McBride (although his nickname was, 'Buns') Captain America... 

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

Was the nickname invented for Kyle Snyder or was it applied to tons of other people before and now after Snyder?  Any athlete (or more likely fan) claiming rights to the captain america nickname is absurd.  

 

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

 

• Steve Rogers (Fictional, Marvel Comics) – The original and most famous Captain America, played by Chris Evans in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

• Chris Evans (Actor) – Because he portrayed Captain America so well, fans often refer to him by the nickname in real life.

• Christian Pulisic (Soccer Player) – The American soccer star earned the nickname Captain America for his performances with the U.S. Men’s National Team.

• Lance Armstrong (Cyclist, formerly) – At one point, some referred to him as Captain America for his dominance in cycling before his doping scandal.

• Johnny Weir (Figure Skater) – During the 2010 Olympics, some media outlets dubbed him Captain America for his patriotic performances.

• Bobby Moore (English Soccer Player, humorously) – Some non-Americans jokingly referred to him as Captain America due to his leadership, though he was English.
   

 

• Clint Dempsey (Soccer) – Before Pulisic, Dempsey was often called Captain America for his leadership and impact on the U.S. Men’s National Team.

• Landon Donovan (Soccer) – Another U.S. soccer legend, Donovan carried the Captain America title for his clutch performances, especially in the World Cup.

• Tommy Smith (Soccer, MLS) – A former Colorado Rapids player sometimes referred to as Captain America for his contributions to U.S. soccer.

• Ryan Callahan (Hockey) – Former New York Rangers and Tampa Bay Lightning forward, known for his leadership and grit, earning him the Captain America nickname in hockey circles.

• Mike Eruzione (Hockey) – Captain of the 1980 U.S. Olympic “Miracle on Ice” team, making him an unofficial Captain America in hockey history.

• Steve Cherundolo (Soccer) – A longtime U.S. Men’s National Team defender who was a captain figure in American soccer.

• Brian McBride (Soccer) – Former USMNT striker and captain, known for his leadership on and off the field.

• David Wright (Baseball) – The longtime New York Mets captain was sometimes called Captain America after his heroics in the World Baseball Classic.

• T.J. Oshie (Hockey) – His clutch shootout performance for Team USA in the 2014 Winter Olympics earned him the Captain America nickname.

 

This AI generated list just proves how boring and unoriginal it is to nickname Hendrickson Captain America.  It is an incredibly unmemorable nickname. 

 

Now, the OK Corraler on the other hand is a kickass nickname.  Or how about the The Stillwater Sheriff or The Flying Cowboy.

Edited Monday at 10:51 PM by billyhoyle

[boconnell]

13 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

 

This AI generated list just proves how boring and unoriginal it is to nickname Hendrickson Captain America.  It is an incredibly unmemorable nickname. 

 

Now, the OK Corraler on the other hand is a kickass nickname.  Or how about the The Stillwater Sheriff or The Flying Cowboy.

I agree it's a dumb nickname.  I don't mind it for Christian Pulisic because he plays in Italy and Italian fans call him that, but I generally think it's a lazy nickname.

[JimmyCinnabon]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Captain Air Force or The Newton Bomber.

He doesn't need to be CA.  

How about “King Slayer?”

[Caveira]

19 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

 

This AI generated list just proves how boring and unoriginal it is to nickname Hendrickson Captain America.  It is an incredibly unmemorable nickname. 

 

Now, the OK Corraler on the other hand is a kickass nickname.  Or how about the The Stillwater Sheriff or The Flying Cowboy.

Wait I didn’t type all of those  ???

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

proves how boring and unoriginal it is to nickname Hendrickson Captain America.

Indeed. Especially considering it's what we've been calling Snyder for a decade...

[Caveira]

Just now, MPhillips said:

Indeed. Especially considering it's what we've been calling Snyder for a decade...

Some of those on that list are pretty old.  I mean it’s not like it’s a super specific quirky name.   It’s just captain america.     It’s like saying I lay claim on the nick name Batman.   Or Superman or something.   Either way I don’t care.  Was just curious how many others were called that too.    

[Wrestleknownothing]

How cool is this?

 

[billyhoyle]

11 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Indeed. Especially considering it's what we've been calling Snyder for a decade...

 And it's a shame that he had such a crappy nickname as well.  Snyderman was at least clever, but even that was just another variation of some superhero.  We need to back badass nicknames like the East Lansing Strangler and Green Toe Polacio!

Edited Monday at 11:20 PM by billyhoyle

[Kov88]

1 hour ago, BarSeries said:

 

I feel like Bo isn’t happy unless every award goes to a PSU wrestler 

[MPhillips]

He was Captain America because he beat the evil Russian. 

Great nickname for that...

[BarSeries]

1 minute ago, Kov88 said:

I feel like Bo isn’t happy unless every award goes to a PSU wrestler 

No doubt. He wouldn't be saying a peep if Wyatt wrestled for PSU and Starocci was a Cowboy. Past Hodge winners voting is kind of ridiculous.........they will just vote for their alma mater.

[Kov88]

1 minute ago, BarSeries said:

Hodge winners voting is kind of ridiculous.........they will just vote for their alma mater.

In a way I feel like they’ve earned that… I was today years old that I learned that you get a vote with each hodge win, I feel like that is a bit overblown

[BAC]

4 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

The bonus percentage was quite close.  The pin percent and dominance score was not at all. And sportsmanship - also not close.  

Honest question - 

Wrestler A majors 90% of his opponents. 
Wrestler B pins 75% of theirs.

Are you going to call A more dominant?  I hope not.

If I'm being honest, I'd pick B in any weight class but HWT.  With heavyweights, I'd pick Wrestler A.

In high school, our HWT *always* had the most falls each year, even though he was average at best.  HWTs just have a way of rolling on their back and not being able to get off, like a stuck turtle. 

At your average HS state tournament, probably every single HWT there pinned more than 75% of their opponents, while it's more of a rarity in other weights.  Doesn't mean HWTs are the most dominant.  It just means they get pinned more easily.

D1 isn't high school, but the NCAA's "Most Dominant Wrestler" award is pretty much *always* won by a HWT.  Parris, Cassioppi and Wyatt have always been at/near the top.  Even if they take losses, it doesn't matter much, since so many big boys do the fat man roll and get stuck.

The NCAA tracks overall pins too.  This past season, 3 of the top 4 falls leader in D1 were HWTs.  None of them even qualified for NCAAs.  The falls leader for D2 and D3?  HWT and HWT. 

So yeah.  In general, I'm going to be far more impressed by a HWT who majors or techs most of his opponents. It tells me he can do more than just squash his guy with his size.  It tells me he's actually outclassing them.  

Edited Monday at 11:34 PM by BAC

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

 

This AI generated list just proves how boring and unoriginal it is to nickname Hendrickson Captain America.  It is an incredibly unmemorable nickname. 

 

Now, the OK Corraler on the other hand is a kickass nickname.  Or how about the The Stillwater Sheriff or The Flying Cowboy.

Let’s just take him from one used nickname to another.  Sargent Slaughter.  I mean; he’s a Sargent; not a captain. And he slaughtered the crowning ceremony.  
 

it works. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bnwtwg]

We have been over this for weeks. His nickname is Lieutenant Farva why is this so complicated people.

[boconnell]

39 minutes ago, BAC said:

So yeah.  In general, I'm going to be far more impressed by a HWT who majors or techs most of his opponents. It tells me he can do more than just squash his guy with his size.  It tells me he's actually outclassing them.  

Do you seriously doubt that Wyatt Hendrickson was outclassing his opponents?  

Anybody who thinks percentage of matches with bonus is more important than average team points per match is making a good argument.  I'd disagree, but I'd totally get it.  I think Starocci had a great case for the Hodge.  I'm not sure I can separate rooting interests from my vote, and if I could separate it, I'm not sure what I'd vote.  If you threw out the criteria and just asked me who is the best 2025 NCAA wrestler I go Starocci.  

But comparing what Wyatt Hendrickson did at heavyweight to fat kids rolling over in HS wrestling is not a good argument.  Saying that a HWT getting majors or techs for less team points is more impressive is not a good argument.  

[boconnell]

30 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Let’s just take him from one used nickname to another.  Sargent Slaughter.  I mean; he’s a Sargent; not a captain. And he slaughtered the crowning ceremony.  
 

it works. 
 

Where are you getting the idea he's a sergeant?  

[Caveira]

29 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Where are you getting the idea he's a sergeant?  

I thought he was a butter bar 2nd lieutenant.  

[Scouts Honor]

love shack

b/c it's by the B-52's

and i think he bang bang banged the door down.

[Dark Energy]

2 hours ago, BAC said:

If I'm being honest, I'd pick B in any weight class but HWT.  With heavyweights, I'd pick Wrestler A.

In high school, our HWT *always* had the most falls each year, even though he was average at best.  HWTs just have a way of rolling on their back and not being able to get off, like a stuck turtle. 

At your average HS state tournament, probably every single HWT there pinned more than 75% of their opponents, while it's more of a rarity in other weights.  Doesn't mean HWTs are the most dominant.  It just means they get pinned more easily.

D1 isn't high school, but the NCAA's "Most Dominant Wrestler" award is pretty much *always* won by a HWT.  Parris, Cassioppi and Wyatt have always been at/near the top.  Even if they take losses, it doesn't matter much, since so many big boys do the fat man roll and get stuck.

The NCAA tracks overall pins too.  This past season, 3 of the top 4 falls leader in D1 were HWTs.  None of them even qualified for NCAAs.  The falls leader for D2 and D3?  HWT and HWT. 

So yeah.  In general, I'm going to be far more impressed by a HWT who majors or techs most of his opponents. It tells me he can do more than just squash his guy with his size.  It tells me he's actually outclassing them.  

So, just to be clear … you think that when Wrestler A majors wrestler C, and wrestler B pins wrestler C, that means, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant than B.  Ok.
 

And, then wrestler A majors all their opponents and Wrestler B pins all their opponents, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant.  
 

 I now understand how you think.  I disagree with you but thanks for being clear.

Edited yesterday at 02:05 AM by Dark Energy

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

So, just to be clear … you think that when Wrestler A majors wrestler C, and wrestler B pins wrestler C, that means, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant than B.  Ok.
 

And, then wrestler A majors all their opponents and Wrestler B pins all their opponents, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant.  
 

 I now understand how you think.  I disagree with you but thanks for being clear.

Psu homers are just adjusting their undergarments and making sketchy arguments.   They can’t handle if they don’t win every single thing.  
 

Bo nickal is asking if we should create another award …. With rules just specifically so Carter would win it. 

[BAC]

4 hours ago, boconnell said:

Do you seriously doubt that Wyatt Hendrickson was outclassing his opponents?  

Anybody who thinks percentage of matches with bonus is more important than average team points per match is making a good argument.  I'd disagree, but I'd totally get it.  I think Starocci had a great case for the Hodge.  I'm not sure I can separate rooting interests from my vote, and if I could separate it, I'm not sure what I'd vote.  If you threw out the criteria and just asked me who is the best 2025 NCAA wrestler I go Starocci.  

But comparing what Wyatt Hendrickson did at heavyweight to fat kids rolling over in HS wrestling is not a good argument.  Saying that a HWT getting majors or techs for less team points is more impressive is not a good argument.  

I didn't even mention Wyatt in my comment.  I was talking about heavyweights in general, and the fact that I look at bonus points by heavyweights a bit differently than other weights.  I don't think I'm alone either.

But since you ask:  do I doubt Wyatt was outclassing his opponents?  No, not at all.  Nor am I questioning his athleticism, which is tremendous.  What I'm just saying that, on average, heavyweights are easier to pin than non-heavyweights.  Every data point backs that up. 

What that means is if you put Wyatt's athleticism and skill set in a 197lber's body, he'd likely have half as many pins. Simple fact is, he's in a weight class where getting a win by fall is much easier than in other weights.  It's something to consider when evaluating how dominant a heavyweight is.

[BAC]

2 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

So, just to be clear … you think that when Wrestler A majors wrestler C, and wrestler B pins wrestler C, that means, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant than B.  Ok.
 

And, then wrestler A majors all their opponents and Wrestler B pins all their opponents, in the Hvy weight class, wrestler A is more dominant.  
 

 I now understand how you think.  I disagree with you but thanks for being clear.

Actually you were comparing a 90% major rate vs. a 75% pin rate, which is what I commented on.  Now you're changing the question. 

What I'm saying is that the difficulty of pinning your opponent is lower in the HWT category, and the difficulty of running up the score is higher.  That impacts how I view HWT dominance vs other weights.  So, in HWT, and only in HWT, I'm more impressed by 90% majors over 75% pins.