Will Wrestling for Boys/Men Start to Follow Suit?

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

https://www.luchafit.com/articles/new-york-just-changed-girls-wrestling-forever-6mzdk?fbclid=PAY2xjawJG9BhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABpt2dz5EXwg2-HUcqX1pWbzo9GC0vFXYQ078IcUp8puSR8h2rwbSfQ6D0vw_aem_zOehJqqa8SDD3BUczaur7A

Edited Wednesday at 12:52 AM by Tom formerly Tofurky

[flyingcement]

It would certainly help us develop a better freestyle national team.  I would personally feel like a part of our culture will be lost if we abandon folk

Edited Wednesday at 01:14 AM by flyingcement

[macwoodfleet]

  On 3/19/2025 at 1:14 AM, flyingcement said:

It would certainly help us develop a better freestyle national team.  I would personally feel like a part of our culture will be lost if we abandon folk

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I don't think it would actually. Our folkstyle experience is a huge advantage at the senior level in a bunch of positions. Folk isn't going anywhere. 

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

  On 3/19/2025 at 1:14 AM, flyingcement said:

It would certainly help us develop a better freestyle national team.  I would personally feel like a part of our culture will be lost if we abandon folk

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I'd like to hear more about your idea regarding American folk and American culture.

[BruceyB]

Overall I think freestyle is a much easier sport to learn than folkstyle. You basically need to learn how to wrestle in neutral, learn a gut/lace, and defend a gut/lace, and largely gain a feel for avoiding exposure. You just don't need to wrestle the style your whole life to be the best in the world. Folk is much more nuanced and you have to be proficient in so many more positions to be successful.

For the most part, even 15 years ago, guys would wrestle freestyle from March until April, and then maybe a training camp before Fargo. Freestyle was just a way to keep wrestling, but didn't garner nearly the focus that it does with today's athletes. How many guys were competing at cadet and junior worlds 15 years ago?

Younger guys are wrestling plenty enough freestyle now to be ready to make world teams even while in college. The only reason we haven't seen more young guys making teams is because we've had so many stalwarts holding down weight classes for more than a quad.

  22 hours ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

I'd like to hear more about your idea regarding American folk and American culture.

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In my opinion, many of the attributes we credit wrestling for instilling in us as athletes derives from it being primarily folkstyle focused in the U.S. Wrestling gets credit for building toughness, discipline, hard work, etc. But you just don't necessarily need to have those attributes nearly as dialed in to have success in freestyle. Chamizo, Musukaev, and all of the other gassers throughout the years could never have the same kind of success that they've had in freestyle if they were to wrestle folkstyle unless that made changes to their training habits. That is what I think you'd lose in American wrestling culture if we switched fully to FS. You lose a lot of the toughness and grit that folkstyle instills.

[NotThatDave]

Freestyle sucks. Trust me. I have been watching wrestling for over a year now.

Edited 10 hours ago by NotThatDave

[Gene Mills Fan]

  10 hours ago, NotThatDave said:

Freestyle sucks. Trust me. I have been watching wrestling for over a year now.

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A leg lace and 6 seconds of rolling always Bums me out.

[NotThatDave]

  9 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

A leg lace and 6 seconds of rolling always Bums me out.

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Simple garbage.

[NormMacDonald]

We need to get the rest of the world wrestling folkstyle instead. Can you imagine the excitement of riding clock hitting 1:00 at the same time the match clock its 0:00 to win a gold medal in the Olympics? 

[The Kid]

  9 hours ago, NormMacDonald said:

We need to get the rest of the world wrestling folkstyle instead. Can you imagine the excitement of riding clock hitting 1:00 at the same time the match clock its 0:00 to win a gold medal in the Olympics? 

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Or a caution for the 27 restarts that happen when guys avoid wrestling by diving out of bounds.  Can you imagine the excitement!

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

  20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

The only reason we haven't seen more young guys making teams is because we've had so many stalwarts holding down weight classes for more than a quad.

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  20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

You just don't need to wrestle the style your whole life to be the best in the world.

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So... the college guys who aren't currently wrestling Freestyle full-time can be the best in the world right now, but they are not because they can't beat the guys who stopped wrestling American folk years ago, and wrestle Freestyle full-time? Am I understanding what you're saying?

[BruceyB]

  5 hours ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

 

So... the college guys who aren't currently wrestling Freestyle full-time can be the best in the world right now, but they are not because they can't beat the guys who stopped wrestling American folk years ago, and wrestle Freestyle full-time? Am I understanding what you're saying?

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I'm going to assume this is disingenuous.  

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

  20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

For the most part, even 15 years ago, guys would wrestle freestyle from March until April, and then maybe a training camp before Fargo. Freestyle was just a way to keep wrestling, but didn't garner nearly the focus that it does with today's athletes. How many guys were competing at cadet and junior worlds 15 years ago?

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According to the UWW Database, 2011 was the first year since 1994 that Cadets were contested at the World level. The United States sent 10 guys for 10 weights.

Juniors in 2010, the U.S.A. sent eight guys for eight weight classes.

Juniors in 2011, the U.S.A. sent eight guys for eight weight classes.

https://uww.org/historical-results

I admit that I am confused with your quoted statement. I've been around for a little bit, and your comment doesn't really line up with the history of wrestling at Cadet and Junior wrestling in the United States. 

[Pablo]

I don't get the appeal of freestyle.  I want to see wrestlers trying to pin their opponent's back to the mat, not grab them by their knees and roll around the floor.

I do get, that at the highest levels, freestyle makes sense.  These guys are just too good and strong to be able to hold them on the mat long enough to turn them over.  Consequently, the folkstyle match consists of each wrestler choosing down to get one point for an escape when it's their turn, and the rest of the points come from either takedowns or stalling.  At that point, you might as well be wrestling freestyle.  And hey, to make it more exciting, give you a near fall if you just expose their back to the mat.

But while it's true that the wrestlers are too good for folkstyle at the highest levels, it's not at all the case for 99.99% of wrestling matches below D1, and not the case for 100% of the women at all levels.

/soapbox

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

  5 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I'm going to assume this is disingenuous.  

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It is not.

[BruceyB]

  5 hours ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

It is not.

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Young guys haven't been making world teams because they have had world medalists/champions blocking their way for the last quad and then some. Guys like Gilman, Lee, Green, Retherford, Dake, Burroughs, Taylor, Cox, Snyder.. it's not an indictment on folkstyle wrestling that other domestic wrestlers haven't been able to dethrone these legends.

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

  20 hours ago, BruceyB said:

In my opinion, many of the attributes we credit wrestling for instilling in us as athletes derives from it being primarily folkstyle focused in the U.S. Wrestling gets credit for building toughness, discipline, hard work, etc. But you just don't necessarily need to have those attributes nearly as dialed in to have success in freestyle. Chamizo, Musukaev, and all of the other gassers throughout the years could never have the same kind of success that they've had in freestyle if they were to wrestle folkstyle unless that made changes to their training habits. That is what I think you'd lose in American wrestling culture if we switched fully to FS. You lose a lot of the toughness and grit that folkstyle instills.

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Thank you for your opinion(s). This passage helps me understand much more about this discussion.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I like both styles but don't really know which is better for the sport in the US. Freestyle does allow for a smoother transition to International and Olympic competition, but that's such a tiny fraction of people in the sport.

Folkstyle might have broader appeal at the college & prep levels because it teaches better overall self-defense skills and is more accessible and useful for folks who come from or want to get into MMA or BJJ. Freestyle development is important, but I can see folkstyle being a worthy counterbalance at the college & prep levels. So why not both? I don't feel the same way about Greco, though.