Sanderson and Taylor

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I find it pretty disappointing that Cael basically disregarded any acknowledgement for a former athlete that has been the most notable wrestler of all of the greats during Cael's tenure. I don't expect him to hand over his playbook of how to build a college program, but he could have at least said a number of things that would have come off a lot better. It really just sounded like "David Taylor left PSU and so we don't even say his name around here anymore." If that's actually how Cael's changed his relationship with an athlete that spent 15 years with him, that is really disappointing. I would hope he'd be happy for Taylor stepping into his own program, and just see him as respected competition, not a turncoat. 

Very Brands-esque.

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Very Brands-esque.

To be fair, the Brands haven't had a wrestler that has left the program to pursue their own dreams of running a program. I understand cutting ties with an active athlete that leaves your program to train in another situation that they see as a better opportunity (Snyder and tOSU, Gilman with Iowa), but David Taylor was loyal to PSU and Cael Sanderson from the time he was in high school until this year. I just don't understand what more Cael could have asked from an athlete. He spent all of his competitive years until his tutelage, and once he retired.. what did Cael expect? I can't imagine not supporting a pupil of 15 years that makes a career decision for himself and his family, even if he does potentially become a rival. If Oklahoma State can challenge PSU, it's a good thing for the sport. Again, I don't know the truer innerworkings of the relationship, but from this interview it sounds like Cael has shunned DT and that is truly sad. I know that I would be heartbroken if I were David Taylor and my mentor of my entire adult life cut off ties because I wanted to create my own legacy.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, BruceyB said:

If Oklahoma State can challenge PSU, it's a good thing for the sport. 

Its odd but Cael doesn't seem to want good things for the sport.  He only wants to focus on Penn State.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

Its odd but Cael doesn't seem to want good things for the sport.  He only wants to focus on Penn State.  

I can understand wanting crush OSU.  What I don't understand is how he doesn't really care to support the sport outside of his own program.

[headshuck]

He’s always been a greedy bastard. 159 for me. None for you.

[BruceyB]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I can understand wanting crush OSU.  What I don't understand is how he doesn't really care to support the sport outside of his own program.

I can't tell what you mean here. Are you saying you're confused by how he doesn't seem to care about the sport outside of PSU, or are you saying you don't understand the accusations that he doesn't care about the sport outside of PSU? Just want to clarify.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I can't tell what you mean here. Are you saying you're confused by how he doesn't seem to care about the sport outside of PSU, or are you saying you don't understand the accusations that he doesn't care about the sport outside of PSU? Just want to clarify.

I don't like the fact that he isn't concerned about promoting the sport of wrestling as a whole,and even resists opportunities to promote his own team to larger audiences throughout the season. (Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't like the fact that he isn't concerned about promoting the sport of wrestling as a whole,and even resists opportunities to promote his own team to larger audiences throughout the season. (Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

Don't forget the National Duals.

[BruceyB]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

(Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

Your slipping @ionel.

[ionel]

Just now, BruceyB said:

Your slipping @ionel.

I was clearly talking about The National Duals not national duals.  But I could also be slipping, both things can be true. 

[BruceyB]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't like the fact that he isn't concerned about promoting the sport of wrestling as a whole,and even resists opportunities to promote his own team to larger audiences throughout the season. (Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

While I agree with your sentiment, it's also not Cael's job to grow the sport while jeopardizing his teams seeds come NCAAs. Meyer Shapiro was 11-1 this season and his best win is over the #22 seed, and he got the #2 seed. Until the regular season strength of schedule and quality of wins carry more weight, Cael has no reason to increase the rigor of PSU's schedule. They wrestle their B1G duals, and wrestle at B1Gs, but essentially nothing of any importance otherwise. The majority of their wrestlers hadn't even faced top 15 opponents going into the B1G schedule. Seeding criteria needs to change in a way that rewards a difficult schedule. Minimize punishment for losses, and heavily incentive quality wins. When quality wins matter more than losses, that is when you'll see teams seeking tough competition. But as we have witnessed this year, weak schedules and conference champions result in the best seeds.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

While I agree with your sentiment, it's also not Cael's job to grow the sport while jeopardizing his teams seeds come NCAAs. Meyer Shapiro was 11-1 this season and his best win is over the #22 seed, and he got the #2 seed. Until the regular season strength of schedule and quality of wins carry more weight, Cael has no reason to increase the rigor of PSU's schedule. They wrestle their B1G duals, and wrestle at B1Gs, but essentially nothing of any importance otherwise. The majority of their wrestlers hadn't even faced top 15 opponents going into the B1G schedule. Seeding criteria needs to change in a way that rewards a difficult schedule. Minimize punishment for losses, and heavily incentive quality wins. When quality wins matter more than losses, that is when you'll see teams seeking tough competition. But as we have witnessed this year, weak schedules and conference champions result in the best seeds.

That is one way of looking at it.  And that is the job he is paid to do.  The other school of thought is to be an ambassador of the sport.  As much hatred as Tom Brands gets, he does a much much better job of this.

[steamboat_charlie]

It seems sort of obvious that there's some animus generally within the PSU camp around how Taylor handled his last few years in Happy Valley, as well as his exit. 

From a neutral perspective, if they actually do hate each other, that sounds like fun.  And we all know how much these guys love Fun. 

 

[BruceyB]

9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

That is one way of looking at it.  And that is the job he is paid to do.  The other school of thought is to be an ambassador of the sport.  As much hatred as Tom Brands gets, he does a much much better job of this.

Agree 100%. That's why we need to change criteria to fall more in line with what is best for the sport rather than what is best for the individual athlete. Meyer Shapiro is the epitome of this issue. He wrestled essentially nobody this season and is rewarded with a #2 seed. There are a great deal of wrestlers with better wins on the season, and should (in my opinion) be seeded above him based on that. Brandon Cannon's wins over Askey and Miller are better than anything Shapiro can boast this year. Cannon should be seeded higher than Shapiro who didn't wrestle anyone. But because he came into the season ranked highly, he is rewarded for not taking any losses outside of an injury-default. This is the problem. 

Maybe the best thing is to get rid of pre-season rankings and rank purely on in-season results. To be the #1 ranked guy, you have to seek out the best competition to earn that #1 rather than maintain your ranking from last years results. Thoughts?

[Gene Mills Fan]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Agree 100%. That's why we need to change criteria to fall more in line with what is best for the sport rather than what is best for the individual athlete. Meyer Shapiro is the epitome of this issue. He wrestled essentially nobody this season and is rewarded with a #2 seed. There are a great deal of wrestlers with better wins on the season, and should (in my opinion) be seeded above him based on that. Brandon Cannon's wins over Askey and Miller are better than anything Shapiro can boast this year. Cannon should be seeded higher than Shapiro who didn't wrestle anyone. But because he came into the season ranked highly, he is rewarded for not taking any losses outside of an injury-default. This is the problem. 

Maybe the best thing is to get rid of pre-season rankings and rank purely on in-season results. To be the #1 ranked guy, you have to seek out the best competition to earn that #1 rather than maintain your ranking from last years results. Thoughts?

I like giving much higher weight to quality wins!   Quality win is kind of determined by last year results (results against ranked opponents) so last year results is indirectly a factor.?

[Spencerlee]

Because PSU is a cult.

[BruceyB]

33 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

Because PSU is a cult.

This isn't fair. How close is the relationship between Metcalf and the Brands bros, Gilman and the bros? For a reasonable comparison we need someone like Spencer Lee to take a head coaching job somewhere and for TnT to be dismissive of him ever being an hawkeye. To be fair, I don't see them turning on their athlete if it's purely a career move. Tom Brands left Iowa to pursue his own coaching dreams before coming back to his alma mater.

[CTMopar]

Who applied for the PSU Head Coaching job from Iowa???

[alex1fly]

On 3/17/2025 at 8:41 PM, BruceyB said:

I find it pretty disappointing that Cael basically disregarded any acknowledgement for a former athlete that has been the most notable wrestler of all of the greats during Cael's tenure. I don't expect him to hand over his playbook of how to build a college program, but he could have at least said a number of things that would have come off a lot better. It really just sounded like "David Taylor left PSU and so we don't even say his name around here anymore." If that's actually how Cael's changed his relationship with an athlete that spent 15 years with him, that is really disappointing. I would hope he'd be happy for Taylor stepping into his own program, and just see him as respected competition, not a turncoat. 

Has anybody in the PSU world said anything nice publicly about DT since he took the OSU job? I've only seen Cael be dismissive and his athletes talk trash. It's super weird. 

[1032004]

16 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

Has anybody in the PSU world said anything nice publicly about DT since he took the OSU job? I've only seen Cael be dismissive and his athletes talk trash. It's super weird. 

I thought Cael said something nice when it was first announced 

[Show_Me]

On 3/18/2025 at 1:38 PM, BruceyB said:But because he came into the season ranked highly, he is rewarded for not taking any losses outside of an injury-default. This is the problem. 

Maybe the best thing is to get rid of pre-season rankings and rank purely on in-season results. To be the #1 ranked guy, you have to seek out the best competition to earn that #1 rather than maintain your ranking from last years results. Thoughts?

This would help.  Seeds are a reflection of Coaches Rankings which are a reflection of Media Rankings which are a reflection of previous Season results.

At least not issue a Ranking until Jan. 1 which would include CKLV, Midlands, & Salute plus other tourneys & duals.

[The Kid]

On 3/18/2025 at 1:48 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't like the fact that he isn't concerned about promoting the sport of wrestling as a whole,and even resists opportunities to promote his own team to larger audiences throughout the season. (Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

He went to save Boston U and they cut their program.

[jackwebster]

On 3/18/2025 at 1:48 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I don't like the fact that he isn't concerned about promoting the sport of wrestling as a whole,and even resists opportunities to promote his own team to larger audiences throughout the season. (Duals against up and coming programs/national duals/etc.)

I always liked the fact that JWS scheduled duals with teams led by folks from on his coaching tree: Wyoming, Binghampton, UNC, NCSt, Oregon St, Little Rock (is that it)) Further, he seemed to have some role in hooking them up with adidas.)

Sanderson might have fewer protogees, but I don't get the feeling he would do this sort of thing.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:24 PM by jackwebster

[PortaJohn]

On 3/19/2025 at 11:12 AM, alex1fly said:

Has anybody in the PSU world said anything nice publicly about DT since he took the OSU job? I've only seen Cael be dismissive and his athletes talk trash. It's super weird. 

Both Anthony Cassar and Bo Nickal said it's great for wrestling on a Podcast.  You fellas, including you @Interviewed_at_Weehawken, are getting kooky.  

What are the current and former PSU wrestler supposed to do?  Go on a goodwill press tour for DT?  

[boconnell]

5 hours ago, Show_Me said:

This would help.  Seeds are a reflection of Coaches Rankings which are a reflection of Media Rankings which are a reflection of previous Season results.

At least not issue a Ranking until Jan. 1 which would include CKLV, Midlands, & Salute plus other tourneys & duals.

This might help seeds.

I don't think that's a good enough reason to stop the little wrestling media we have from publishing rankings (which are probably their #1 generator of traffic).