Brennan and weight- gate

[Coastal]

20 hours ago, Idaho said:

I have followed this pretty close.... from what I have read...

Brennan believed he had a medical redshirt coming in 2021...however the NCAA did not give out redshirts that year because is was a free year. That's why Starocci and others are getting 5 post seasons. If Brennan had wrestled 2021 his 5th post season would have been last year. 

The NCAA either grants the redshirt or it does not. Humphries was declined for the exact same reason - no med shirts in 2021 since it was a free year. 

A wrestling stat service (nameless) reached out to LR this season about Brennan being ineligible.

Somehow he wrestled all season, without confirmation from the NCAA that he was eligible. If he had been eligible by the NCAA this would not be an issue right now and they not have had to apply for a waiver. 

LR fans have said that Brennan was deemed eligible twice over the season - was that by the NCAA or by LR? The NCAA only grants the shirt once - why do you have to keep checking? 

WHat I believe has happened (which could come out as wrong later) - is that the LR compliance department deemed him eligible, but the NCAA did not. How the LR coaches and compliance department could assume and carry on business as usual without confirmation of med shirt year from the NCAA is baffling. If the NCAA did grant it, it would be against their own policy (Humphries) and we would not be in this situation of having to review it and submit a waiver. If LR said they did receive that confirmation, then how did they get it and Humphries did not and why are they still having to submit a waiver. To me all signs point toward a LR compliance misunderstanding and mishandling of the situation. But like I said, I could be wrong, but nothing adds up. 

If he is deemed eligible, we may see a lawsuit from guys like Humphrey and probably others who used a med shirt during the free year. Another year for those guys is another year of NIL earnings and possibly finishing a masters program. IF he is deemed ineligible, then obviously this is a huge mark on the LR compliance and a very unfortunate situation for the program, Brennan and his family. This would also make him ineligible the whole year...now it's another can of worms with LR defeating Oregon State by 4 points for the team title at the Pac12. Also, the only way to go here would be to give the 2nd place pac 12 wrestler the allocation since the Pac12 is guaranteed and allocation. If they give it to the alternate, then you have taken the allocation from the Pac12.  Obviously the longer this goes the more likely they don't do anything. 

You are missing one other point.  If he's ineligible, all of his wins become forfeit losses.   That may change the dynamics of seeding, quality wins, hell it might even change who qualified.   Brody Baumann of Purdue has a "quality win" over Brennan.   If Brennan is out, that's no longer a one.  I don't know if that changes Baumann's seed but it might for example

 

 

[ugarles]

43 minutes ago, Coastal said:

You are missing one other point.  If he's ineligible, all of his wins become forfeit losses.   That may change the dynamics of seeding, quality wins, hell it might even change who qualified.   Brody Baumann of Purdue has a "quality win" over Brennan.   If Brennan is out, that's no longer a one.  I don't know if that changes Baumann's seed but it might for example

I would be stunned if they rescore the season. Any effect it might have on seeding would be swamped by the risk that they learn something that alters the scoring of the at-large pool. They aren't even letting the guy he beat in the conference tournament take his automatic bid.

[Wrestleknownothing]

No way they rescore the season, in my opinion. They have alternates and a procedure that they will rely on. And given the timing of a decision at this point, it will almost 100% be the alternate rather than the second place finisher at B12.

[Coastal]

36 minutes ago, ugarles said:

I would be stunned if they rescore the season. Any effect it might have on seeding would be swamped by the risk that they learn something that alters the scoring of the at-large pool. They aren't even letting the guy he beat in the conference tournament take his automatic bid.

They won't rescore the season but by rights, they should.     If they let him wrestle, they'll get sued and lose.  If they don't let him wrestle, they may get sued but for not nearly the damages and have a chance of winning

[NormMacDonald]

1 minute ago, Coastal said:

They won't rescore the season but by rights, they should.     If they let him wrestle, they'll get sued and lose.  If they don't let him wrestle, they may get sued but for not nearly the damages and have a chance of winning

Who is going going to sue them and win if they don't let him wrestle?

I'm shocked a decision hasn't been made yet. To me its a no brainier that he's out. 

[fishbane]

10 minutes ago, Coastal said:

They won't rescore the season but by rights, they should.     If they let him wrestle, they'll get sued and lose.  If they don't let him wrestle, they may get sued but for not nearly the damages and have a chance of winning

I don't think they rescore the season.  It's more likely that they vacate wins.  Isn't that more customary when a team uses an illegal player? 

Couldn't they get sued by the alternate or the pac-12 runner up if they let him wrestle?

[ugarles]

Just now, fishbane said:

I don't think they rescore the season.  It's more likely that they vacate wins.  Isn't that more customary when a team uses an illegal player? 

Couldn't they get sued by the alternate or the pac-12 runner up if they let him wrestle?

almost certainly not. i mean, it's america - anyone can sue for anything - but i don't know what damages anyone can claim they suffered that you could assign a monetary value to. it's more likely that you could convince a judge to issue an injunction but it's probably already too late to sue for that since you've had days to think about it and the tournament starts tomorrow.

[Coastal]

2 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I don't think they rescore the season.  It's more likely that they vacate wins.  Isn't that more customary when a team uses an illegal player? 

Couldn't they get sued by the alternate or the pac-12 runner up if they let him wrestle?

If they let him wrestle, someone like Humphreys, who is in the exact same situation and they didn't let wrestle,  could easily argue in court that this decision cost him millions and I'm sure there are others in the same situation.   

Since there's a math matrix, it's possible that someone isn't an NQ because Brennan wrestled the season if they don't let him wrestle in addition to the PAC-4 runner-up.     Even with a losing record, the runner-up would look a lot more attractive as a high school wrestling coach if NQ is in the resume.  That's worth something.

[bnwtwg]

His eligiblility was confirmed and approved TWICE this season by his conference. Dying or not, that is a bonafide NCAA conference. Shame on the NCAA. Brennan should be allowed to compete on basis of incompetence. 

Edited March 19 by bnwtwg

[Coastal]

43 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

His eligiblility was confirmed and approved TWICE this season by his conference. Dying or not, that is a bonafide NCAA conference. Shame on the NCAA. Brennan should be allowed to compete on basis of incompetence. 

Little Rock was told at the start of the season that he was ineligible.   The fact that they lied multiple times to a couple of conference officials who are too busy looking for other jobs that aren't in a dying conferences to give a damn doesn't make him eligible.    If anything, Little Rock should be looking at forfeiting the entire season and put on probation.

[jchapman]

52 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

His eligiblility was confirmed and approved TWICE this season by his conference. Dying or not, that is a bonafide NCAA conference. Shame on the NCAA. Brennan should be allowed to compete on basis of incompetence. 

It's shame on the PAC-12 and Little Rock.

[jchapman]

2 hours ago, Coastal said:

If they let him wrestle, someone like Humphreys, who is in the exact same situation and they didn't let wrestle,  could easily argue in court that this decision cost him millions and I'm sure there are others in the same situation.   

Since there's a math matrix, it's possible that someone isn't an NQ because Brennan wrestled the season if they don't let him wrestle in addition to the PAC-4 runner-up.     Even with a losing record, the runner-up would look a lot more attractive as a high school wrestling coach if NQ is in the resume.  That's worth something.

But the alternate from Rider will look more attractive with NQ on the resume, right?

[Coastal]

10 minutes ago, jchapman said:

But the alternate from Rider will look more attractive with NQ on the resume, right?

Yes he will.   That doesn't make this whole though as the rightful qualifier is the one who loses by Little Rock's blatant cheating.

[jchapman]

1 minute ago, Coastal said:

Yes he will.   That doesn't make this whole though as the rightful qualifier is the one who loses by Little Rock's blatant cheating.

I get it.  I can see a case for both guys deserving a slot.

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, Coastal said:

Yes he will.   That doesn't make this whole though as the rightful qualifier is the one who loses by Little Rock's blatant cheating.

Will there be any sanctions against Little Rock?

[d3grappler]

Seems like most on here have already figured this out, but the ncaa does not certify eligibility, that is done by the school and their conference.

edit: the ncaa will however, be coming down on Little Rock. 

Edited March 19 by d3grappler

[Spencerlee]

30 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Will there be any sanctions against Little Rock?

Hopefully. This kind of stuff can’t be encouraged.

Edited March 19 by Spencerlee

[Jerry Valley]

Doesn't the NCAA check the athletes eligibility at the beginning of the season? 

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, Jerry Valley said:

Doesn't the NCAA check the athletes eligibility at the beginning of the season? 

Are you asking if the NCAA enforces their own rules? Oh thats funny.   

[Jerry Valley]

I thought the school was responsible for submitting the athletes to the ncaa for eligibility verification

[d3grappler]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Valley said:

I thought the school was responsible for submitting the athletes to the ncaa for eligibility verification

School submits to pac 12

[Jerry Valley]

Ok. Then you would think this would have been picked up

[ionel]

8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

No way they rescore the season, in my opinion. They have alternates and a procedure that they will rely on. And given the timing of a decision at this point, it will almost 100% be the alternate rather than the second place finisher at B12.

[Gene Mills Fan]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Maybe to punish bad BIG12!