Iowa just does not have the talent

[Rassling2]

16 minutes ago, Ragu said:

He is a former national champion and has even better freestyle chops. He’s going to get big money

I’m a big fan of Alvirez. The kid exudes confidence and backs it up. 

[wrestle87]

This is a nice rally around Iowa, but that is not the message that anybody is sending about Iowa and is mot the point.

We all know Penn State is a preposterous machine.  What we also know and have watched is that Iowa is now buying more and more on the market, and they are not putting guys out there who show any sort of technical evolution, at least to what is relevant in modern wrestling.

The guys who show up at Iowa need to already have an arsenal, and whatever they have in high school is all they’ll have their senior year.

Hard collar tie, elbow post, high crotch is middle school technique.  It worked for the brands in the 90’s, but the point of coaching is to help wrestlers evolve and get better.

That is something they have not done for a long time, and it is why people are critical of them.  Iowa wrestlers flow like a bag of rocks, and their on the mat style has been surpassed.  

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

This is a nice rally around Iowa, but that is not the message that anybody is sending about Iowa and is mot the point.

We all know Penn State is a preposterous machine.  What we also know and have watched is that Iowa is now buying more and more on the market, and they are not putting guys out there who show any sort of technical evolution, at least to what is relevant in modern wrestling.

The guys who show up at Iowa need to already have an arsenal, and whatever they have in high school is all they’ll have their senior year.

Hard collar tie, elbow post, high crotch is middle school technique.  It worked for the brands in the 90’s, but the point of coaching is to help wrestlers evolve and get better.

That is something they have not done for a long time, and it is why people are critical of them.  Iowa wrestlers flow like a bag of rocks, and their on the mat style has been surpassed.  

Then why do they consistently beat everybody else? 

[MPhillips]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Then why do they consistently beat everybody else? 

Everyone channeling their inner MSU...

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Everyone channeling their inner MSU...

I just don't understand why it's either "they're perfect as coaches, no notes" or "they suck and the entire sport has passed them by."

 

They're good coaches, but have definitive flaws, one of them they're working on fixing (trying to bring in more of the top end high school talent as opposed to just one or two big fish and "coaching up" somewhat lower ranked guys) and are bridging the gap in that strategy with transfers) and the other is one that I desperately want them to fix (more diversity of thought/experience on the coaching staff).  They're still awesome coaches, and they get very good results.

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I just don't understand why it's either "they're perfect as coaches, no notes" or "they suck and the entire sport has passed them by."

I don't get it either...

[Gene Mills Fan]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I just don't understand why it's either "they're perfect as coaches, no notes" or "they suck and the entire sport has passed them by."

 

They're good coaches, but have definitive flaws, one of them they're working on fixing (trying to bring in more of the top end high school talent as opposed to just one or two big fish and "coaching up" somewhat lower ranked guys) and are bridging the gap in that strategy with transfers) and the other is one that I desperately want them to fix (more diversity of thought/experience on the coaching staff).  They're still awesome coaches, and they get very good results.

I was thinking how Ono and the Otuguro's can come and train with different programs get what they want and go and continue. I wish coaches could get by the school/ownership bias so guys could get cross training at the highest level. During the off season, the guys should be able to spend a few weeks at another RTC or the AWA, Nolf's, ect.; without the immediate sense of betrayal and resistance from a home base. Is it happening and i'm just oblivious to it?  In watching the 'DUAL' series I found it interesting that basically the Iowa and Iowa State were basically training with each other all summer.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

28 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I just don't understand why it's either "they're perfect as coaches, no notes" or "they suck and the entire sport has passed them by."

 

They're good coaches, but have definitive flaws, one of them they're working on fixing (trying to bring in more of the top end high school talent as opposed to just one or two big fish and "coaching up" somewhat lower ranked guys) and are bridging the gap in that strategy with transfers) and the other is one that I desperately want them to fix (more diversity of thought/experience on the coaching staff).  They're still awesome coaches, and they get very good results.

As a Penn State fan I hope the Brands continue to coach at Iowa for as long as possible and I mean the with total sincerity.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, Rassling2 said:

I’m a big fan of Alvirez. The kid exudes confidence and backs it up. 

Alvirez?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Aside from Otoguru all those people are pretty unaccomplished in terms of senior level results, no?  Especially when compared to NLWC.

Other than Brooks, who is at NLWC with senior level results better than DeSanto, Eierman, and Otoguru?

Edited 19 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Konquest]

I can say with absolute certainty that there is a room in Wisconsin that has highly ranked wrestlers from Mizzou, Minnesota, UNI, and Penn State all wrestling with each other in the offseason.

Edited 19 hours ago by Konquest

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

I just don't understand why it's either "they're perfect as coaches, no notes" or "they suck and the entire sport has passed them by."

It's because we're on an internet forum. 

[Gus]

12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Other than Brooks, who is at NLWC with senior level results better than DeSanto, Eierman, and Otoguru?

Kyle Snyder, Zain Retherford, Nick Lee

[PortaJohn]

15 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Other than Brooks, who is at NLWC with senior level results better than DeSanto, Eierman, and Otoguru?

Have you been day drinking?

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

It's because we're on an internet forum. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Other than Brooks, who is at NLWC with senior level results better than DeSanto, Eierman, and Otoguru?

I always love the "other than" form of argument. Let me first claim that the strongest piece of evidence is not to be considered and then let's debate.

And as far as other than goes, Otoguru is not a member of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club.

But among current athletes, Kyle Snyder and Nick Lee have had better international results than either DeSanto or Eierman.

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I always love the "other than" form of argument. Let me first claim that the strongest piece of evidence is not to be considered and then let's debate.

And as far as other than goes, Otoguru is not a member of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club.

But among current athletes, Kyle Snyder and Nick Lee have had better international results than either DeSanto or Eierman.

And Dake.  I think he MAY be trying to argue about "homegrown" talent from the college roster, but either way it doesn't matter to me; obviously NLWC is the best club in the USA, no matter how much I wish it wasn't so.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 minutes ago, Gus said:

Kyle Snyder, Zain Retherford, Nick Lee

Snyder yes. 

Zain: not currently competing.

Nick Lee- no.  (Eierman has won a senior Pan Am; Nick Lee not so much...)

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

13 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I always love the "other than" form of argument. Let me first claim that the strongest piece of evidence is not to be considered and then let's debate.

And as far as other than goes, Otoguru is not a member of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club.

But among current athletes, Kyle Snyder and Nick Lee have had better international results than either DeSanto or Eierman.

Nick Lee does not have better international results than Eierman.  See my previous post about continentals, although I was wrong about Lee never having Pan Am success.  He just couldn't get it done when it actually mattered. And Eierman was only a bronze!

Dake and Snyder, obviously.

Edited 19 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I always love the "other than" form of argument. Let me first claim that the strongest piece of evidence is not to be considered and then let's debate.

And as far as other than goes, Otoguru is not a member of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club.

But among current athletes, Kyle Snyder and Nick Lee have had better international results than either DeSanto or Eierman.

WKN, I was responding to an "other than" argument.

I have actually responded to two arguments in two days that started "Other than Spencer Lee..."

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

And Dake.  I think he MAY be trying to argue about "homegrown" talent from the college roster, but either way it doesn't matter to me; obviously NLWC is the best club in the USA, no matter how much I wish it wasn't so.

Well, no... I was arguing about active talent.  Not guys who retired, moved to Oklahoma or Texas, or "Taking a year off."

[Gus]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Snyder yes. 

Zain: not currently competing.

Nick Lee- no.  (Eierman has won a senior Pan Am; Nick Lee not so much...)

Zain is coaching the team currently and will be competing next year if not this year. He is still scrapping but coming back from head injury. Nick Lee literally won Pan Am's last year and has made the US world team. He is much more accomplished than Jaydin.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Repeat post

Edited 19 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Gus said:

Zain is coaching the team currently and will be competing next year if not this year. He is still scrapping but coming back from head injury. Nick Lee literally won Pan Am's last year and has made the US world team. He is much more accomplished than Jaydin.

I'm taking a year off, too.  For about 23 years now.

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Nick Lee does not have better international results than Eierman.  See my previous post about continentals.

Dake and Snyder, obviously.

Nick Lee won final X and finished seventh at Worlds. He has an infinitely better resume than Eierman.