Winners Circle Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) 12 hours ago, 1032004 said: Was Fugitt ever enrolled anywhere other than Wisconsin? Committed to OU under the old regime. Kish never gave him the time of day when he got the job. So Zan reopened his recruiting process. Came down to Mizzou and Wisco, and we know how the story ended. Edited June 3 by Winners Circle 1 1
SoonerKing Posted June 3 Posted June 3 It is tough at OU right now. I'm not a fire Kish guy. I would support fire Leonard. I don't say that lightly and from outside I can be wrong. But the admin perspective has not been supportive and has had many missteps in past dozen years. References made about Cael and PSU, Dresser at ISU and Taylor at OSU as programs turning it around without being *program* guys. Cael and Taylor are *big name* guys and had *HUGE* donors behind them. Dresser might not be ISU guy but he is a state of IA guy and his staff is too. Plus Dresser brought in a legend ISU guy in Nate Carr. Kish brought in his NDSU guys and they have *not* panned out. You don't need to have a program guy as a coach, but you need to have program people involved in some aspect. A lot of the true and steady OU supporters have been turned away and rubbed wrong by Kish. I personally haven't felt it, but I know many that have. I'll reiterate that I'm not pushing for Kish to be fired. I'm good with giving him time and hopeful he is successful yet unfortunately it is tough right now in Norman. 1
MNRodent Posted June 3 Posted June 3 9 minutes ago, SoonerKing said: It is tough at OU right now. I'm not a fire Kish guy. I would support fire Leonard. I don't say that lightly and from outside I can be wrong. But the admin perspective has not been supportive and has had many missteps in past dozen years. References made about Cael and PSU, Dresser at ISU and Taylor at OSU as programs turning it around without being *program* guys. Cael and Taylor are *big name* guys and had *HUGE* donors behind them. Dresser might not be ISU guy but he is a state of IA guy and his staff is too. Plus Dresser brought in a legend ISU guy in Nate Carr. Kish brought in his NDSU guys and they have *not* panned out. You don't need to have a program guy as a coach, but you need to have program people involved in some aspect. A lot of the true and steady OU supporters have been turned away and rubbed wrong by Kish. I personally haven't felt it, but I know many that have. I'll reiterate that I'm not pushing for Kish to be fired. I'm good with giving him time and hopeful he is successful yet unfortunately it is tough right now in Norman. I wouldn't be so quick to blame Kish's staff. Cam Sykora for one, seems very active in recruiting and has brought in a lot of very good Minnesota kids.
Le duke Posted June 3 Posted June 3 9 minutes ago, Hilton Head Joe said: Are there even any D1 head coaching positions open? Army.
Hilton Head Joe Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Le duke said: Army. Ok wow ok. Only one! There is usually 2 or 3 open at the beginning of June. they got to scramble to come with their staff and get ready for upcoming season. Edited June 3 by Hilton Head Joe
TNwrestling Posted June 3 Posted June 3 41 minutes ago, Hilton Head Joe said: Are there even any D1 head coaching positions open? https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs?keywords=Wrestling 1
alex1fly Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) On 6/2/2025 at 10:02 AM, Winners Circle said: They finished 23rd in 2024 and 38th this year. Would you be happy with that much of a regression? And if your argument is, "well they lost Buchanan to the portal", I'd counter with being able to retain your athletes (especially the elite ones) is the most important part of the job. No I wouldn't be, but I've seen the process of rebuilding D1 athletics programs many times over and the best way to crash the process is having your coaching staff on the hot seat their entire tenure. Recruits see it too - who's happy to go to OU wrestling (or any other struggling D1 athletics program) now? Someone without a lot of other options or wants the underdog persona. That's not bad per se, but it can't be the only flavor for your program or you will not have sustainable success. Not to say you give a new coach 100% leeway and trust for a decade with no accountability, but there's something to be said for finding a middle ground where the coaches have some time (aka more than 1 season) to build their system. Edited June 3 by alex1fly 3
JimmySpeaks Posted June 3 Posted June 3 6 hours ago, MNRodent said: I wouldn't be so quick to blame Kish's staff. Cam Sykora for one, seems very active in recruiting and has brought in a lot of very good Minnesota kids. Sykora is a very good recruiter but he’s a Kish yes man. I’ve met and talked to Kish on numerous occasions and he is as others on here have stated very arrogant with an enormous ego. Kish didn’t leave NDSU on good terms and has basically zero relationship with his former Associate Head Coach Obe Blanc because of it. I thought it was poetic justice that Obe had an AA this past NCAA tourney while Kish had none. IMO Cam should go someplace else and get a different perspective on how a program is run. 3
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 On 6/2/2025 at 2:52 PM, BruceyB said: I don't recall asking any questions, bud. Keeping alumnus on campus doesn't necessarily matter when building a program. Having the right guys matters. Iowa State was basically in the same place as Oklahoma before Dresser got there, and they have climbed back to relevance with how many ISU alumnus on their staff? Cael and PSU? David Taylor and OSU? Building a culture and having the guys in place to build a future is more important than bringing in someone just because they are an alumnus. It sounds like you clearly don't like Kish nor trust his process. But when a program has been stuck in mediocrity for as long as OU, it might be time to clean house and start the rebuild from scratch. I swear, I feel like I am talking to my wife right now. So, you are saying tradition does not matter? Do I say Iowa would argue with that? Iowa State, you prolly know way more about Iowa State than me. Did you know one of the first moves Dresser made was asking Nate Carr to come in and run the RTC? Remind me, where did he go to college? The first thing Dresser did, was acknowledge the alumni and the tradition of Iowa State. He didn't try to Virgiina Tech---Iowa State. Where is David Carr right now? What title does he have at Iowa State? OU has brought in 3 coaches that had no ties to the Oklahoma tradition, and my point is, look where that got the program. Kish is living and dying by the portal. He could have a true Sophmore AA right now, if he wasnt completely ***I am an idiot and can't use a better adjective***ed and F the recruitment of Fugitt up. Oklahoma State. Who was their HC for decades? Where did he wrestle college at? How successful where they for decades? If OU hired a Burroughs or, Dake, I would say Great hire and you do not need to bring in folks that have OU ties, but Kish aint it. 1
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 On 6/2/2025 at 5:39 PM, 1032004 said: How? I am not sure how to answer this. Richison wanted Coleman Scott as the next HC, and he wanted Maple, and a few others considered. Leonard thought Koll was a slam dunk, so they blew everyone else off. Koll came in and did loved OU, but was not thrilled with the donors. Then Leonard brought Nickerson in, same result. Richison finally say F this, I will take my money to OSU. Richison graduated from UCO, and their facitlies are nicer than any facilties in the state (better than OU and OSU) I imagine OSU will have better facitlies in a few years with what DT is doing. 1
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 On 6/2/2025 at 6:34 PM, 1032004 said: Was Fugitt ever enrolled anywhere other than Wisconsin? Zan was a HARD Commit to OU, he committed to Lou. Kish screwed this whole deal up to. Zan had OSU, Minn, Missouri, and several others begging for him to decommit and come to their school. He stayed loyal, and then it got to the point, Kish didn't call him or anything, so he left. Kish tried to fight it, but he ended up getting out of the commitment. It came down to Illinois or Wisconisn. He chose Wisconsin. He is doing what he has always done. Win, and be a great kid. He will end up single handily save Bono and get some other good kids in there (IMO) 1 1
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 16 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said: Sykora is a very good recruiter but he’s a Kish yes man. I’ve met and talked to Kish on numerous occasions and he is as others on here have stated very arrogant with an enormous ego. Kish didn’t leave NDSU on good terms and has basically zero relationship with his former Associate Head Coach Obe Blanc because of it. I thought it was poetic justice that Obe had an AA this past NCAA tourney while Kish had none. IMO Cam should go someplace else and get a different perspective on how a program is run. yep, this is spot on. Here is one for you. They let Iowa State use the room before the OSU duals, or maybe big 12's, not sure on that. But, they worked out in the evening, and then the next AM, Kish had told Dresser he could use the facilties again. Iowa St shows up, and doors are locked. Someone had Buchanan's number and asked if he would come up and le them in. He did. While he was letting them in, Kish pulls up and starts dog cussing Dresser telling him to stop trying to poach his wrestlers. Dresser was like, WTF? I was trying to get my guys in here to warm up. Bad blood ever since. THAT is Roger Kish. complete D*ck and feels like he is better than everyone. I am not an OSU fan, I actually cannot stand OSU, but I tip my cap to DT. That dude is humble, and people are starting to love him more and more. 2 2
SoonerKing Posted June 4 Posted June 4 @H82Lose I see where you got my take about Kish guys. Wasn't totally about staff. It is that he has brought in a handful of NDSU transfer wrestlers and paid them more than current OU wrestlers (prime example is Mora over Heindselman) and his NDSU transfers are not scoring points at NCAA. I want Kish and OU to succeed. Just not bullish on the situation. And of his 2 assistants he brought in, I'm more impressed with Mardsen than Sykora. Just my 2 cents from the cheap seats. 2
JimmySpeaks Posted June 4 Posted June 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, H82Lose said: yep, this is spot on. Here is one for you. They let Iowa State use the room before the OSU duals, or maybe big 12's, not sure on that. But, they worked out in the evening, and then the next AM, Kish had told Dresser he could use the facilties again. Iowa St shows up, and doors are locked. Someone had Buchanan's number and asked if he would come up and le them in. He did. While he was letting them in, Kish pulls up and starts dog cussing Dresser telling him to stop trying to poach his wrestlers. Dresser was like, WTF? I was trying to get my guys in here to warm up. Bad blood ever since. THAT is Roger Kish. complete D*ck and feels like he is better than everyone. I am not an OSU fan, I actually cannot stand OSU, but I tip my cap to DT. That dude is humble, and people are starting to love him more and more. I’m interested in seeing how he handles the roster he’s getting (buying ?) via the portal. IMO it’s going to be a decent squad. It also could explode on him. I think he knows he needs to show some major progress this season. Should be a fun one in Norman Edited June 4 by JimmySpeaks
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 17 minutes ago, SoonerKing said: @H82Lose I see where you got my take about Kish guys. Wasn't totally about staff. It is that he has brought in a handful of NDSU transfer wrestlers and paid them more than current OU wrestlers (prime example is Mora over Heindselman) and his NDSU transfers are not scoring points at NCAA. I want Kish and OU to succeed. Just not bullish on the situation. And of his 2 assistants he brought in, I'm more impressed with Mardsen than Sykora. Just my 2 cents from the cheap seats. Hell I want him to succeed, I am an OU fan through and through. I am just pissed at how Joe C has allowed that program to flounder. Leonard has been given a ton of power there, and I really do not know why. So, another tidbit on what a dirt bag Kish is. You seen Mcdougal, Pickalo, and Wiley leave, well it was because he cut most of their scholly money and had no discussion with them. Just tried to hand them a "new" contract and told them to just sign it. The wrestling world is too small man, you cannot continue to treat people like crap and burn bridges. Cam is a nice guy, but Teyon is a better recruiter, but Teyon is not a yes man. Anyway, I will shut up. I have no skin in that program, I am just a fan. 1 1
H82Lose Posted June 4 Posted June 4 21 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said: I’m interested in seeing how he handles the roster he’s getting (buying ?) via the portal. IMO it’s going to be a decent squad. It also could explode on him. I think he knows he needs to show some major progress this season. Should be a fun one in Norman They are for sure going to be better, top to bottom. They MIGHT be in the top 15? maybe? Which is a step in the right direction. But, I also know, there are some young bulls on that team, that are not happy. Winning more makes everyone happy, so who knows, maybe this year will lock them in.
JimmySpeaks Posted June 4 Posted June 4 18 minutes ago, H82Lose said: Hell I want him to succeed, I am an OU fan through and through. I am just pissed at how Joe C has allowed that program to flounder. Leonard has been given a ton of power there, and I really do not know why. So, another tidbit on what a dirt bag Kish is. You seen Mcdougal, Pickalo, and Wiley leave, well it was because he cut most of their scholly money and had no discussion with them. Just tried to hand them a "new" contract and told them to just sign it. The wrestling world is too small man, you cannot continue to treat people like crap and burn bridges. Cam is a nice guy, but Teyon is a better recruiter, but Teyon is not a yes man. Anyway, I will shut up. I have no skin in that program, I am just a fan. That’s where Rogers lack of people skills comes in. It’s not that what he did was wrong (cutting scholly money to give to better wrestlers) it’s how he goes about it. Have an open, honest, hard face to face conversation about why you’re doing it.
SoonerKing Posted June 4 Posted June 4 I unfortunately know of *many* scholarship/money issues/situations where Kish has did wrong by the group of kids he inherited and has over compensated kids he's brought in via portal. He has what he wanted now. It is definitely his team as none of the good kids that were there when he got there are still there. We will see how it turns out. 1
poorwrestler Posted June 4 Posted June 4 Cannon's concussion issues make me think 141, as well. People with concussion issues have cardio issues as well, which exacerabate as you cut weight. I don’t think he’s coming here to go 141 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 3
nhs67 Posted June 4 Posted June 4 3 minutes ago, poorwrestler said: I don’t think he’s coming here to go 141 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I am damn happy to see it, either way! A quality program for a top-notch guy. 2 2 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me
alex1fly Posted June 4 Posted June 4 6 hours ago, H82Lose said: yep, this is spot on. Here is one for you. They let Iowa State use the room before the OSU duals, or maybe big 12's, not sure on that. But, they worked out in the evening, and then the next AM, Kish had told Dresser he could use the facilties again. Iowa St shows up, and doors are locked. Someone had Buchanan's number and asked if he would come up and le them in. He did. While he was letting them in, Kish pulls up and starts dog cussing Dresser telling him to stop trying to poach his wrestlers. Dresser was like, WTF? I was trying to get my guys in here to warm up. Bad blood ever since. THAT is Roger Kish. complete D*ck and feels like he is better than everyone. I am not an OSU fan, I actually cannot stand OSU, but I tip my cap to DT. That dude is humble, and people are starting to love him more and more. Not to stir the pot. But if he's such a turd then why hire him. Was he just the best choice at the time for the decision makers?
Winners Circle Posted June 4 Posted June 4 39 minutes ago, alex1fly said: Not to stir the pot. But if he's such a turd then why hire him. Was he just the best choice at the time for the decision makers? I know for certain he wasn't their first choice (I.e. Rob Koll). I also have 0 intel, but seemed to me like once they lost out on the top candidates, they went after a guy they felt they could control.
Lunaticfringe Posted June 5 Posted June 5 Cannon has placed 7th twice and hasn’t AA’ed since 2022. I don’t see this ending the best as he has been constantly hurt and is 25 years old at this point. I would be shocked if he gives anymore than Tyler Wells did 1 1
flyingcement Posted June 5 Posted June 5 If someone said to you at the beginning of the season: Which team will have Jore Volk and Chris Cannon as their starting 125/133 this year? Minnesota wouldn't have been in my top ten lol 1 1 1
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