2025 Transfer Portal

[Eagle26]

7 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I know YOU think that. Some of your PSU brethren though....

 

Anyway, moving on, I've been batting around the idea of transfer fees to ameliorate some of the small school losses.  What are your thoughts?  I had thought either flat fee based on finalist, AA, or NQ.  Or a direct percentage of NIL contract (this would require some level of disclosure, obviously).

I think that is a great idea. I like a percentage of the NIL deal has to go to the university that they are coming from. That way anytime someone AAs from a small school, they at least get something in return when someone else poaches them. But then again, PSU has the most guys transferring now, so I guess the rich will still get richer

[HoosierWrestlingFan]

Can you guys please take your discussion on the perils of NIL to another thread? It would be super awesome if the thread on the transfer portal was focused on the athletes in the portal and where they are going. There are hundreds, probably thousands of people who come to these forums for updated information and informative discussion about the sport, but these super long irrelevant arguments really ruins the forum experience for those non-members who just come here for the must current info.

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I'm not going to sugar coat this. I think @JimmySpeaks is a complete imbecile. But I do agree that what students are earning directly from Universities (once the monet is no longer being laundered through collectives/boosters etc) should be public knowlege. College is now professional sports and just like in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. where contracts are disclosed publicly, so too should the money college athletes are making so that there is a more fair market value. I don't know if you or Wkn agree or disagree with that sentiment. In the current landscape, there is no reason to disclose NIL deals, but once money is coming directly from the institutions, IMO, that changes everything.

I feel like you did sugar coat that.

[VakAttack]

 

 

[nhs67]

14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

 

 

Do you think he Redshirts or goes out the gate at 141?

[JimmySpeaks]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I'm not going to sugar coat this. I think @JimmySpeaks is a complete imbecile. But I do agree that what students are earning directly from Universities (once the monet is no longer being laundered through collectives/boosters etc) should be public knowlege. College is now professional sports and just like in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. where contracts are disclosed publicly, so too should the money college athletes are making so that there is a more fair market value. I don't know if you or Wkn agree or disagree with that sentiment. In the current landscape, there is no reason to disclose NIL deals, but once money is coming directly from the institutions, IMO, that changes everything.

Oh ouch.  How will I sleep?  Directly or indirectly shouldn’t matter. IMO it should be public either way. Transparency wouldn’t do any harm at all.  

[Dogbone]

13 hours ago, BAC said:

It's an interesting question what PSU should do in this situation. 

Let's assume (and I know some question this) that Welsh's transfer was initiated by Welsh, and PSU, knowing he was a luxury but not a need, didn't do much more than say "sure we'd love to have you" without throwing any NIL money at him (at least not beyond what the cooperative pays).

Let's also assume that Welsh and Ryder are basically interchangeable.  (I think they are.)

Questions:

--Should PSU have checked with Ryder first?  

--If they check with him, and he says "I don't want that, I'll transfer if you bring him in," should they let Welsh transfer anyway?  Or should they say "Sorry Rocco, we're good, maybe try somewhere else."

One answer is that while PSU should give Ryder a courtesy heads up, PSU should bring Welsh in no matter what, on the theory that you should never turn down new talent (unless he's got personal baggage). If a guy doesn't want to compete for their spot, that's counter to the team's open-door philosophy, and they're probably better off elsewhere anyway.

But on the other hand, I feel like this is a net loss for PSU.  They make an even exchange, Ryder for Welsh, but Welsh has one less year of eligibility, and they don't know how Welsh will gel with the team.  And other PSU recruits, especially those who bonded with Ryder, feel unsettled/annoyed, destabilizing the team.

 I think I lean toward the first answer, but curious what others think.

- This assumes a huge falsehood that Rocco isn't getting any NIL. 

- What should PSU do when Rocco called?   It's crazy no one thinks Cael could of said "we like our guy at 184" He does have he ability to say no thanks.   He wanted Rocco or Rocco wouldn't be on campus and he surely knew losing Ryder was a risk he was willing to take.  You don't check with Ryder first unless his response changes your decision to take Rocco.

- These kids only get 4 years to wrestle, while there a few room guys happy to be on the team, you can't blame Ryder for wanting to maximize his limited time in NCAA wrestling.  Even if he thinks he can beat Rocco.

[Idaho]

12 hours ago, Offthemat said:

That’s only for entry, right?  

Correct... they could enter the last day and still have time to decide.... last year there were guys who transferred after the portal closed as a non-scholarship "walk on"  but were somehow still able to pay cash for full tuition. 

[1032004]

13 hours ago, BAC said:

It's an interesting question what PSU should do in this situation. 

Let's assume (and I know some question this) that Welsh's transfer was initiated by Welsh, and PSU, knowing he was a luxury but not a need, didn't do much more than say "sure we'd love to have you" without throwing any NIL money at him (at least not beyond what the cooperative pays).

Let's also assume that Welsh and Ryder are basically interchangeable.  (I think they are.)

Questions:

--Should PSU have checked with Ryder first?  

--If they check with him, and he says "I don't want that, I'll transfer if you bring him in," should they let Welsh transfer anyway?  Or should they say "Sorry Rocco, we're good, maybe try somewhere else."

One answer is that while PSU should give Ryder a courtesy heads up, PSU should bring Welsh in no matter what, on the theory that you should never turn down new talent (unless he's got personal baggage). If a guy doesn't want to compete for their spot, that's counter to the team's open-door philosophy, and they're probably better off elsewhere anyway.

But on the other hand, I feel like this is a net loss for PSU.  They make an even exchange, Ryder for Welsh, but Welsh has one less year of eligibility, and they don't know how Welsh will gel with the team.  And other PSU recruits, especially those who bonded with Ryder, feel unsettled/annoyed, destabilizing the team.

 I think I lean toward the first answer, but curious what others think.

What do you mean “beyond what the cooperative pays”?  I know the money is not coming from the school/coaches, but I gotta think most times the coach is aware of who the boosters are going after and can make a recommendation if they disagree.  Considering Rocco said “he was offered a lot more at other places,” he was definitely offered something to go to State College.  But I wouldn’t have put it past Cael to tell the boosters not to offer him anything.

I know Tom Ryan has said he tells the entire team when they’re interested in a portal guy.  I think that would make more sense than just asking someone who might be at the same weight.

 

[Ragu]

I think the culture in the PSU room is that we are bringing the best guys in the world into this room to compete. Damn if your feelings are hurt. Not saying that’s the situation here but if a talent like that wants to come, he fits the culture. Seems like Ryder did not

[jajensen09]

3 hours ago, HoosierWrestlingFan said:

Can you guys please take your discussion on the perils of NIL to another thread? It would be super awesome if the thread on the transfer portal was focused on the athletes in the portal and where they are going. There are hundreds, probably thousands of people who come to these forums for updated information and informative discussion about the sport, but these super long irrelevant arguments really ruins the forum experience for those non-members who just come here for the must current info.

Couldn't agree more!!

[BAC]

39 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What do you mean “beyond what the cooperative pays”?  I know the money is not coming from the school/coaches, but I gotta think most times the coach is aware of who the boosters are going after and can make a recommendation if they disagree.  Considering Rocco said “he was offered a lot more at other places,” he was definitely offered something to go to State College.  But I wouldn’t have put it past Cael to tell the boosters not to offer him anything.

I know Tom Ryan has said he tells the entire team when they’re interested in a portal guy.  I think that would make more sense than just asking someone who might be at the same weight.

 

What I mean is that there's two basic kinds of NIL money:  (1) the money you get from the school-sanctioned (but not controlled) cooperative/collective, and (2) the separate-money athlete-specific deals, usually used as inducement to transfer.

The first kind is what everyone gets -- at least at the larger universities.  At PSU, that's Happy Valley United.  It's an online store and means if hiring an athlete, but also collects membership funds and donations and uses it to pool money and provides a monthly stipend, the amount of which generally varies by sport.  Each school varies, but a (dated) explanation of PSU's is here.

The second kind is the Iowa/Bob Nichols stuff, e.g. "Tell Buchanan I'll pay him $500K to stand out front of my slummy apartments for 2 hours holding a 'for rent' sign if he transfers here."  (Or whatever happened.)  No doubt Starocci got himself one of those deals to stay for a 5th year too.    

What I'm hypothesizing is that, in Welsh's case, it was probably just the first.  When he called and said "I wanna go there" I would imagine PSU said "great, here's what we can give in scholarships next year (if anything), and here's what our NIL collective pays per month."

Of course, all of the above is poised to be radically altered with the NCAA/House settlement, and maybe it already is (to some degree), but I'm still getting my arms around that like everyone else.

[wrestlingfan22]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Do you think he Redshirts or goes out the gate at 141?

Probably depends how the offseason goes. Would guess he does some 65kg stuff to test if he thinks he is big enough yet

[VakAttack]

32 minutes ago, BAC said:

 

What I'm hypothesizing is that, in Welsh's case, it was probably just the first.  When he called and said "I wanna go there" I would imagine PSU said "great, here's what we can give in scholarships next year (if anything), and here's what our NIL collective pays per month."

Of course, all of the above is poised to be radically altered with the NCAA/House settlement, and maybe it already is (to some degree), but I'm still getting my arms around that like everyone else.

And why are you hypothesizing this, the best possible version of events for Penn State?

[Dogbone]

34 minutes ago, BAC said:

What I'm hypothesizing is that, in Welsh's case, it was probably just the first.  When he called and said "I wanna go there" I would imagine PSU said "great, here's what we can give in scholarships next year (if anything), and here's what our NIL collective pays per month."

 

No chance Rocco is getting the same deal that Gary Steen was getting (before he transferred). 

[BAC]

18 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

And why are you hypothesizing this, the best possible version of events for Penn State?

Because it's what the facts point to. 

I think maybe you're just more willing to accuse decent people of massive fraud and recruiting violations than I am, and more willing to assume the existence of sprawling nefarious conspiracies on the thinnest of pretexts.

In any case, it's hardly the best version of events for Penn State. They did an even-up trade for a guy who may or may not gel with his teammates, who has one less year of eligibility and has a history as a bit of a hothead, while losing the homegrown recruit.  The Starocci tweet suggests they didn't adequately vet it with the team, and the fact that Ryder left suggests they didn't make enough of an effort to secure his buy-in.  I'd say it's just about the worst version of events for PSU, unless one is willing to demean themselves with baseless accusations of lying, fraud, violations, conspiracies, etc.

Edited 20 hours ago by BAC

[Dogbone]

2 minutes ago, BAC said:

Because it's what the facts point to. 

 

What "facts" point this this???

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, BAC said:

I think maybe you're just more willing to accuse decent people of massive fraud and recruiting violations than I am, and more willing to assume the existence of sprawling nefarious conspiracies on the thinnest of pretexts.

Quite a sentence to throw at Vak...

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, BAC said:

Because it's what the facts point to. 

I think maybe you're just more willing to accuse decent people of massive fraud and recruiting violations than I am, and more willing to assume the existence of sprawling nefarious conspiracies on the thinnest of pretexts.

In any case, it's hardly the best version of events for Penn State. They did an even-up trade for a guy who may or may not gel with his teammates, who has one less year of eligibility and has a history as a bit of a hothead, while losing the homegrown recruit.  The Starocci tweet suggests they didn't adequately vet it with the team, and the fact that Ryder left suggests they didn't make enough of an effort to secure his buy-in.  I'd say it's just about the worst version of events for PSU, unless one is willing to demean themselves with baseless accusations of lying, fraud, violations, conspiracies, etc.

No.  You are choosing to interpret things in the way that most aligns with what you want to be true.

[Elevator]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

No.  You are choosing to interpret things in the way that most aligns with what you want to be true.

Not going to sit here as you bad mouth American exceptionalism! 

[MPhillips]

American exceptionalism is the belief that the United States is either distinctive, unique, or exemplary compared to other nations.

For the dummies in the back...

[Dark Energy]

2 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

American exceptionalism is the belief that the United States is either distinctive, unique, or exemplary compared to other nations.

For the dummies in the back...

If you don’t believe that, you don’t know much about world history, geo-politics, global economic disparities, and military budgets / experience.

 

 

[Dark Energy]

23 minutes ago, BAC said:

The Starocci tweet suggests they didn't adequately vet it with the team, and the …

What did the tweet say?  I missed it and can’t find it.  

[Johnyt9]

25 minutes ago, BAC said:

Because it's what the facts point to. 

I think maybe you're just more willing to accuse decent people of massive fraud and recruiting violations than I am, and more willing to assume the existence of sprawling nefarious conspiracies on the thinnest of pretexts.

In any case, it's hardly the best version of events for Penn State. They did an even-up trade for a guy who may or may not gel with his teammates, who has one less year of eligibility and has a history as a bit of a hothead, while losing the homegrown recruit.  The Starocci tweet suggests they didn't adequately vet it with the team, and the fact that Ryder left suggests they didn't make enough of an effort to secure his buy-in.  I'd say it's just about the worst version of events for PSU, unless one is willing to demean themselves with baseless accusations of lying, fraud, violations, conspiracies, etc.

Except that it is neither massive fraud or recruiting violations - not anymore

And let know if you are consistent about this with other teams transfers or are you comfortable accusing them in this manner

[BAC]

7 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

What "facts" point this this???

One, the fact that PSU had Ryder, who most see as being on Welsh's level, making it illogical for PSU to affirmatively seek out Welsh as a replacement. 

Two, the fact that Welsh had a prior history of discontent at OSU that is unrelated to PSU, with a confirmed visit to OSU back in December and Ryan having to publicly quell the fire back.

Three, Welsh's stated reason for preferring PSU -- that he wanted a stronger training room -- meshes well with his discontent at OSU, where he asked them to get better RTC guys but they weren't able to.

Four, Welsh's own words, disclaiming that PSU was ever a foregone conclusion, but rather was one of a couple of frontrunners at the time.

Fifth, the fact that the Mineo "done deal" tweets proved to be false (unless you call Welsh a liar), given his indication that he fielded numerous offers, and given the fact that he didn't commit right away.

Sixth, the fact that PSU was offering less $ than other schools.

Seventh, the fact that Welsh isn't exactly Cael's "type":  all tatted up, a temper, apparently not recruited by PSU in high school.

Eight, Starocci's pro-Ryder tweet, and Ryder's later departure, suggest that all of this happened very suddenly from PSU's perspective, as it wasn't pre-vetted with the team or Ryder.

Ninth, the general absurdity of the notion that Cael, with a bunch of consecutive titled and strongly favored to win at least the next couple as well, would suddenly throw it all away by engaging in massive recruiting violations that could cost him his job and get him and his team suspended from competition.  

Tenth, the utter lack of any facts or evidence cutting the other way.  Even Ryan, who's quick to whine about virtually everything, hasn't said a single sour word toward PSU about this.

***

How about you. Do you have any facts that this was a massive conspiratorial rule-violating poaching of a competitor, planned and executed by those evil cackling PSU miscreant coaches?

I'll wait.