Penn State not getting Bassett, Dreshaun and seemingly Jax is refreshing for the sport.

[Hammerlock3]

6 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I'll never argue that Penn State isn't getting the cream of the crop.  I just push back on the narrative they get all of them.  Their success is a combo of talent of course and more importantly development.  I always like to reference that Ohio State class because it was talked about ad nauseam how it was the greatest ever.

I think PSU's secret weapon isn't getting "all of them" its getting the ones they want. In Miracle they tell Kurt Russell (Herb Brooks I think?) he isn't taking the best players, and he says "I don't want the best players I want the right ones". That's PSU. When I assume tOSU isn't developing well, It might be trickle down of them just going after the biggest names they can get, but not getting the guys who "fit" or maybe not even having a clear enough idea of what their fit is. 

On that note I don't think PSU wanted Bassett unless they got a deal on him, and you can't say they were gagging for Forrest when they just got Blaze....I don't think they care about any of this.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I think PSU's secret weapon isn't getting "all of them" its getting the ones they want. In Miracle they tell Kurt Russell (Herb Brooks I think?) he isn't taking the best players, and he says "I don't want the best players I want the right ones". That's PSU. When I assume tOSU isn't developing well, It might be trickle down of them just going after the biggest names they can get, but not getting the guys who "fit" or maybe not even having a clear enough idea of what their fit is. 

On that note I don't think PSU wanted Bassett unless they got a deal on him, and you can't say they were gagging for Forrest when they just got Blaze....I don't think they care about any of this.

They wanted Jax.  The trio of Jax, Blaze, and PJ Duke in that part of the lineup would've been monstrous 

Edited February 6 by PortaJohn

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

They wanted Jax 

i'll take your word for it

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i'll take your word for it

I'm passing along second hand info (take it for what it's worth) but I heard it was Jax with Taylor the whole time.  Bumping up the announcement had everyone's head spinning but heard it was still Jax wanted to go with Taylor this morning.  Posted it before the announcement 

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I'm passing along second hand info (take it for what it's worth) but I heard it was Jax with Taylor the whole time.  Bumping up the announcement had everyone's head spinning but heard it was still Jax wanted to go with Taylor this morning.  Posted it before the announcement 

I actually almost went into two (eerily similar) stories about when cael did miss recruits he wanted...but I also tend not to mention things if I'm not willing to say where I heard it. 

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I actually almost went into two (eerily similar) stories about when cael did miss recruits he wanted...but I also tend not to mention things if I'm not willing to say where I heard it. 

I hear ya.  Wrestling is a small community and lots of us on here are privy to insider info.  Always better to side on the err of caution and not say too much.

[Lordnelson]

Jax wanted OkSt long before Taylor was hired there.  Bo went to Iowa for the money, the end.  Kid is a wrestling lifer and good on him for getting the money that so many before him never had the opportunity to having lived out of their cars to chase world and olympic level dreams with hopes of maybe landing a College Coaching Gig somewhere. 

 

PSU is the best overall setup in our sport. 

1. They have, if not the best, one of the best Coaching staffs.  The athletes that stay always develop

2. They recruit extremely well

3. Their RTC has evolved into the best, therefore all kids have exposure to multiple looks at top tier excellence and have a natural transition post graduation

4. They have financial backing that supports the changing landscape of NCAA Sports

 

You can look at other programs and find obvious dents in one of the 4. 

[Pinnacle]

9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Lol at including Teasdale.  Even Teske only scored a few total points in his 2 trips to the NCAA tournament for Iowa.

DeSanto was who I was referencing as being kicked off his prior team and before the portal existed.

Lugo was also before the portal existed, and along with DeSanto were the only 2 transfers in the starting lineup in 2020 when they likely would have won the title.

Woods and Eierman did well (well Eierman really only his first year at Iowa), but they did not accomplish their goal of winning an individual NCAA title. Even Woods did better in his first year too.

TBD of course on Buchanan, Teemer and Parco.  Caliendo may end up being their best transfer factoring in years on the team and NCAA placements.

 

I dont think you are getting my point. Iowa gets studs, but do they produce as expected? 

Penn State gets studs, and on balance their guys produce the best results.

What is the cause of this variation in outcome. It is not just recruiting or transfer rankings. 

[1032004]

38 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

I dont think you are getting my point. Iowa gets studs, but do they produce as expected? 

Penn State gets studs, and on balance their guys produce the best results.

What is the cause of this variation in outcome. It is not just recruiting or transfer rankings. 

Yes, even though Iowa hasn’t had a transfer win a title, for the most part their transfers have performed as expected, often better actually.

Your point seems to be changing. You originally said “Iowa has objectively done the best in the portal the past 7 years.”  But now you’re implying they haven’t “produced as expected” and PSU’s have.   Are we just talking transfers here?  PSU had Drew Hildebrandt transfer in after finishing 4th and he went 1-2 at NCAA’s for PSU. That’s probably the worst result of any AA that’s transferred in the portal era.  They also had 3rd place finisher Kyle Conel transfer in and go 3-3 during the regular season before getting injured.

If we’re just talking the quality of the wrestlers before they transferred, it’s probably a close race between Iowa and PSU.  And they’ve almost all performed similarly to what they had done in prior seasons (or what people knew they had the potential to do, like in the cases of Kerk and Mesenbrink who used the portal to transfer before using any eligibility elsewhere).

IMO, Central PA is home to the school that’s had some of the best transfer results in terms of improvement.  But it’s not PSU.  It’s Lock Haven.  Anthony Noto was 2-4 during his redshirt year at NC State, and 2 years later placed 4th for Lock Haven. Before the portal, but Chance Marsteller was 11-8 for OSU, then became a 2x AA for Lock Haven.  This is why I don’t think the portal is bad for wrestling.  Yes top teams will pull guys from smaller schools that weren’t highly recruited out of HS.  But the smaller schools can get guys who didn’t pan out or couldn’t make the lineup at the bigger schools.

[Husker_Du]

here are the last five Big Boards

https://rokfin.com/ranking/4776/This-Decades-Big-Boards

last five recruiting classes

https://rokfin.com/article/19339/This-Decades-Recruiting-Class-Rankings

ten years of recruiting data

https://rokfin.com/article/17509/Ten-Years-Of-Recruiting-Rankings

[BruceyB]

At the end of the day, there are only 10 roster spots. 

[ionel]

11 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

... small community and lots of us on here are privy to insider info.  

[1032004]

It’s funny that it’s “refreshing” that the top guys are going to the other 2 schools that have won every title except 4 in the last 37 years.

But it actually is.

[Husker_Du]

19 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I think PSU's secret weapon isn't getting "all of them" its getting the ones they want.

spot on.

one could point to a couple guys that didn't pan out, but psu has also passed on a good number of highly ranked guys in favor of others who go on to better careers. 

there isn't a coach in the country who i talk to about recruits that identifies kids as well, or as early, as Cael. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

9 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

here are the last five Big Boards

https://rokfin.com/ranking/4776/This-Decades-Big-Boards

last five recruiting classes

https://rokfin.com/article/19339/This-Decades-Recruiting-Class-Rankings

ten years of recruiting data

https://rokfin.com/article/17509/Ten-Years-Of-Recruiting-Rankings

Great stuff. Thanks for posting.

[Caveira]

21 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

They wanted Jax.  The trio of Jax, Blaze, and PJ Duke in that part of the lineup would've been monstrous 

The fact that psu/okst offered “similar $” to Bo and StallRocci is crying on twitter confirms that they wanted Jax.   

[Caveira]

16 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The fact that psu/okst offered “similar $” to Bo and StallRocci is crying on twitter confirms that they wanted Jax.   

Wanted bo basset.  Darn typos lol 

[Wrestleknownothing]

27 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The fact that psu/okst offered “similar $” to Bo and StallRocci is crying on twitter confirms that they wanted Jax.   

The Starocci tweet is very weird given that he had previously bragged about getting the largest NIL. But then self awareness has never been his strong point. Folkstyle wrestling on the other hand...

[Idaho]

@Husker_Du Big board has 6 OK State kids in the top 20...followed by PSU with 3, Virginia Tech with 3, NC State 2, Missouri 2, Cornell 2, Iowa 2 and Melvin still out there. It still comes back to development... PSU gets guys they want and they develop and get better every season. How many times have people posted "If this X happens then they could beat PSU" then PSU actually beats everyone by more. DT showing early he can develop guys - a lot of improvement this season. 

[1032004]

11 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

here are the last five Big Boards

https://rokfin.com/ranking/4776/This-Decades-Big-Boards

last five recruiting classes

https://rokfin.com/article/19339/This-Decades-Recruiting-Class-Rankings

ten years of recruiting data

https://rokfin.com/article/17509/Ten-Years-Of-Recruiting-Rankings

Thank you for sharing.

So if we focus on top 5-10 (which is what the thread seems to be more about), PSU had:

2021: #2 Facundo and #4 Van Ness

2022: #7 Haines - in the last 4 years this was the only year PSU’s class was not ranked in the top 4, but Haines was still a top 7 recruit.  This class also had Caleb Henson at #16 so of course PSU isn’t the only school turning non-top 5 recruits into NCAA champs

2023: #4 Barr and #9 Kasak

2024: #1 Lilledahl #5 Mirasola #6 Ryder #8 Sealey

Don’t see 2025 but I assume Blaze and Duke are 1 & 2.  Flo also has Henckel at #8.

So like I said earlier maybe it’s a bit of a recency bias.  They had very good recruiting classes in 2021-2023 but not blowing everyone else away.  But in 2024 & 2025 PSU went bonkers, so people may have thought that was going to continue.

 

[Pinnacle]

Numbers, you are still missing my point. When a coach is attempting to land a portal transfer, in that moment the measure of success is whether you get the transfer or not. Iowa is good at landing these transfers.

How you develop those transfers is a further step in the process. You either get it or you don't but this step is where Cael dominates.

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

When a coach is attempting to land a portal transfer, in that moment the measure of success is whether you get the transfer or not. Iowa is good at buying these transfers.

ftfy

[1032004]

46 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Numbers, you are still missing my point. When a coach is attempting to land a portal transfer, in that moment the measure of success is whether you get the transfer or not. Iowa is good at landing these transfers.

How you develop those transfers is a further step in the process. You either get it or you don't but this step is where Cael dominates.

PSU is also good at landing transfers, perhaps better than Iowa.  And I’d argue they are comparable in “developing” them as well.  You are just speaking based on vibes.  Here are each team’s transfers that were in the starting lineup starting in 2020, with guys that transferred just prior to that season.  The transfer portal was introduced in October 2018 so the 2019-2020 season would be the first one after the portal was available. Let me know if I missed any (DeSanto and Lugo were before the portal existed and are not included, even though both would be good examples of being “developed” at Iowa).

 

Iowa:

Eierman: 5/4/3 at Mizzou, 2/R16 at Iowa

Teske: R16/R12 at UNI, DNP/R12 at Iowa

Woods: R12/6 at Stanford, 2/4 at Iowa

Franek: R12/4th at NDSU, 8th at Iowa

Caliendo: 7th at NDSU, 4th/TBD at Iowa

Parco: 6/8/4/5 at FSU/ASU, TBD at Iowa

Teemer: 4/6/2 at ASU, TBD at Iowa

Buchanan: 8/3/3 at WYO/OU, TBD at Iowa

 

PSU:

Kerkvliet: no eligibility used, 7/4/2/1/TBD at PSU

Conel: R16/3 at Kent State, 3-3 then injured at PSU

Hildebrandt: 4th at CMU, DNP at PSU

Dean: 8/2 at Cornell, 1/7 at PSU

Nagao: 5th at Minny, R12/TBD at PSU

Mesenbrink: no eligibility used, 2nd/TBD at PSU

Truax: 4/4/4/4 at Cal Poly, 5th at PSU

 

By my math unless I missed anybody, since 2020 both PSU and Iowa have brought in 7 wrestlers that had previously shown to be AA caliber (not counting Teske, counting Kerk & Mesenbrink - call that cherry picking if you want, but I think most objective observers would agree with me).  So first of all, I’d argue that this shows Iowa is not really any better at PSU at getting them in the first place.   On top of that, all but one of Iowa’s transfers listed above had their highest placement at Iowa (of course TBD on the 3 from this year).  

Conversely, if we remove Kerk and Mesenrbink from the equation, Max Dean was literally the only PSU transfer to improve on his previous finish.  And he was a previous finalist, then did noticeably worse in his last year at PSU.

So objectively, you are wrong to say that Cael has “dominated” in developing transfers.  He has “dominated” in developing his own recruits, and because of that (and Ira Lubert), is just as good at bringing in transfers.   I’m sure if they had any holes in their lineup this season they would have targeted more transfers this offseason.

 

[Pinnacle]

You have it reversed. PSU is comparable at landing them but much better at developing them.

[1032004]

31 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

You have it reversed. PSU is comparable at landing them but much better at developing them.

Transfers?  No they are not, based on the data I shared I’d argue they are worse.