Poll: Who wins the 2025 Hodge?

[Gus]

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Mekhi and Griffith both dealt with injuries

The difference in that scenario is that Gable beat a healthy Parris in '21. Parris was a wrecking ball that year with a 100% bonus rate (including over Kerk and Cassiopi) outside of his two matches with Gable.

[BruceyB]

17 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought past accolades were removed from the hodge criteria? Jesse having the close one with Vombaur definitely dings him but if he wins 141 it will be hard to argue with that strength of schedule at least in my opinion if he puts up above an 80% bonus rate. Mitchell is going to be the most dominant guy besides Gable but is probably also at arguably the weakest weight in the country. If gable were to bonus Kerk at big 10's or NCAA's he would be my odds-on favorite. Carter beating Pk with a 90% bonus rate will also be a great resume. 

Gable
Carter
MM
Jesse 

Thats the order I would go with, but I think all have certain arguments going in their favor. Darkhorse Wyatt if he somehow won heavy.

I am really curious how voting would go if Keckeisen were to pull off the upset. Would voters ding him for losing in the All-Star? Or would they reward him for ending Carter's streak and quest for 5?

[PortaJohn]

21 minutes ago, Gus said:

The difference in that scenario is that Gable beat a healthy Parris in '21. Parris was a wrecking ball that year with a 100% bonus rate (including over Kerk and Cassiopi) outside of his two matches with Gable.

I'm being subjective here but it is hard for me, almost impossible, to compare a middle weight to a heavy.  I'm always going to believe the skill sets required to win at the lower or middle weights far surpass the skillsets needed to win at heavy.  So, at least for me, beating Mekhi Lewis is far greater than beating Parris.  I'll take Mekhi's redshirt freshman championship over a 2x Vincenzo Joseph over anything Parris did.

[Elevator]

7 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I'm being subjective here but it is hard for me, almost impossible, to compare a middle weight to a heavy.  I'm always going to believe the skill sets required to win at the lower or middle weights far surpass the skillsets needed to win at heavy.  So, at least for me, beating Mekhi Lewis is far greater than beating Parris.  I'll take Mekhi's redshirt freshman championship over a 2x Vincenzo Joseph over anything Parris did.

As a bigger guy, this is offensive.  But as a wrestling fan, it is accurate.  One Hodge is not enough.  Probably should be three: lower, middle, and upper.  

[Gus]

8 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I'm being subjective here but it is hard for me, almost impossible, to compare a middle weight to a heavy.  I'm always going to believe the skill sets required to win at the lower or middle weights far surpass the skillsets needed to win at heavy.  So, at least for me, beating Mekhi Lewis is far greater than beating Parris.  I'll take Mekhi's redshirt freshman championship over a 2x Vincenzo Joseph over anything Parris did.

Mekhi was lights out in that championship run. Obviously there is a much different skill set that is required to win a title at 125 vs 165 vs 285. Yes, it is all subjective. In my subjective mind, I see the Parris win as the best of the bunch. 

[bnwtwg]

This is where I volunteer and run for

 

So it pains me to say that after what went down with Natalie's dog, I am separating the art from the artist and saying that Mesenbrink is "My Girl" and should win the Hodge as long as he wins out. Terminator on another level at his weight class. Of course, if KOT stayed or MM bumped up (and don't get me started if Carr was around another year after last year's attempted Patrick Mahomes level of ref jobbing for PSU...)

[ionel]

If Hendrickson beats Kerk & Steveson then he is your Hodge. 

[headshuck]

Has anyone ever felt Steveson might lose a match since his true freshman loss to Cassar in 2019? The only time for me was his semifinal match with Kirk because they knew each other so well and Cael might coach Kirk up to repeat the Cassar feat.

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Has anyone ever felt Steveson might lose a match since his true freshman loss to Cassar in 2019? The only time for me was his semifinal match with Kirk because they knew each other so well and Cael might coach Kirk up to repeat the Cassar feat.

That Olympic gold match looked a little ify tell ...

[bnwtwg]

3 hours ago, Gus said:

The difference in that scenario is that Gable beat a healthy Parris in '21. Parris was a wrecking ball that year with a 100% bonus rate (including over Kerk and Cassiopi) outside of his two matches with Gable.

Doesn't even include that was the beginning of the new generation taking over - Parris beat Gwiz in the offseason when the RTC cards put the wrestling community on their back.

[bnwtwg]

38 minutes ago, ionel said:

That Olympic gold match looked a little ify tell ...

Thank goodness for the fairytale ending. Eggum correctly held the challenge brick when Steveson should have been awarded amplitude instead of step out 1 but was fully in control, both that match and the entire Olympic tourney to that point. But if Steveson lost after the gut ride from hell because he didn't get the final takedown and Eggum didn't challenge 4 vs 1, well hoooo budddyyyy....

[bnwtwg]

59 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Has anyone ever felt Steveson might lose a match since his true freshman loss to Cassar in 2019? The only time for me was his semifinal match with Kirk because they knew each other so well and Cael might coach Kirk up to repeat the Cassar feat.

Steveson lets Kerk stay close. I will die on this hill among the other molehills I will also succumb to.

[Truzzcat]

15 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I am really curious how voting would go if Keckeisen were to pull off the upset. Would voters ding him for losing in the All-Star? Or would they reward him for ending Carter's streak and quest for 5?

I think because the hodge is seemingly more subjective than seeding, it would be hard for the voters to overlook that all-star result. Despite it not going on their official records it was a folkstyle match that happened after the season started.

[billyhoyle]

On 2/11/2025 at 9:44 AM, Jon_Kozak said:

Most would say rankings should be as objective as possible. Obviously there's subjectivity in the p4p but we try to hold to wins and losses determining a ranking. 

Also, you're definitely assuming Levi Haines couldn't beat Mesenbrink - Haines' 1 loss this year was to KOT who has 2 wins over the guy who beat Mesenbrink. Beyond that, Haines was an undefeated NCAA Champ last year, a feat that Mesenbrink still hasn't accomplished. 

I think most would say weight-class rankings should be as objective as possible, but P4P is inherently subjective because there is no head to head across weight classes. Just based on watching Messenbrink wrestle, and watching the other guys in the top 10 p4p wrestle, where would you put him subjectively in p4p? You are an expert in wrestling, I'm curious if your eyes tell you the same thing that mine do. 

[Jon_Kozak]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

I think most would say weight-class rankings should be as objective as possible, but P4P is inherently subjective because there is no head to head across weight classes. Just based on watching Messenbrink wrestle, and watching the other guys in the top 10 p4p wrestle, where would you put him subjectively in p4p? You are an expert in wrestling, I'm curious if your eyes tell you the same thing that mine do. 

Yeah p4p is the most subjective of any rankings but we still try to hold to wins and losses determining a ranking. Unfortunately for Mesenbrink, he lost his only match against a top 5 p4p guy.

But to answer your question, I'd project Mesenbrink as high as 3-4. Behind Gable and Starocci but right in the mix with Keegan and Keckeisen. 

[bnwtwg]

11 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said:

Yeah p4p is the most subjective of any rankings but we still try to hold to wins and losses determining a ranking. Unfortunately for Mesenbrink, he lost his only match against a top 5 p4p guy.

But to answer your question, I'd project Mesenbrink as high as 3-4. Behind Gable and Starocci but right in the mix with Keegan and Keckeisen. 

But in theory, Hodge is most dominant not best p4p. I recognize that is not how voting is conducted anymore, but that's the principle. I believe you are correct that Mesenbrink is consistently somewhere in the #3-5 p4p discussion but he is conducting the most dominant season thus far punctuated by the techfall of the #2 wrestler in the country. If he finishes with 100% bonus rate and continues to maintain or even improve his 92% early termination rate then I don't understand a rational argument to not award the Hodge to MM.

[headshuck]

Could be the weight class isn’t as strong as previous years?

[Jon_Kozak]

6 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

But in theory, Hodge is most dominant not best p4p. I recognize that is not how voting is conducted anymore, but that's the principle. I believe you are correct that Mesenbrink is consistently somewhere in the #3-5 p4p discussion but he is conducting the most dominant season thus far punctuated by the techfall of the #2 wrestler in the country. If he finishes with 100% bonus rate and continues to maintain or even improve his 92% early termination rate then I don't understand a rational argument to not award the Hodge to MM.

I agree with you - I was just responding to questions about why we had Mesenbrink ranked #10 in the p4p

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said:

I agree with you - I was just responding to questions about why we had Mesenbrink ranked #10 in the p4p

Ahh my fault, I interpreted your second paragraph as Hodge rankings rather than p4p. I was wrong.