With all of this talk about to gap from 197-285

[Gene Mills Fan]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

There probably isn’t, but even though most 275+ pound guys could stand to lose a few pounds, we shouldn’t be encouraging weight cutting.  If guys are concerned about people leaving the sport, lowering 285 would probably cause people to leave the sport.  And considering most of the recent heavyweight champs are in the 250ish range, they don’t seem to mind having to beat up on a few fat dudes to do it.

But you still want to see the big fat guys win closely against good technical 220 pounders?

[Gene Mills Fan]

1 minute ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

But you still want to see the big fat guys win closely against good technical 220 pounders?

not to mention the 220 pounders future back problems

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

But you still want to see the big fat guys win closely against good technical 220 pounders?

They usually don’t though.

Weren’t you just suggesting to change 184/197 to 190/213?  I’m on board with that.  But we don’t need 197 + another weight before heavyweight.  The competition would be extremely watered down

[BruceyB]

25 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

There probably isn’t, but even though most 275+ pound guys could stand to lose a few pounds, we shouldn’t be encouraging weight cutting.  If guys are concerned about people leaving the sport, lowering 285 would probably cause people to leave the sport.  And considering most of the recent heavyweight champs are in the 250ish range, they don’t seem to mind having to beat up on a few fat dudes to do it.

A guy who weighs 285 but gets on a diet plan to make 265 isn't "cutting weight." He is following a dietary plan that makes him healthier. There are very very few individuals in the history of the human race that weigh more than 285 and wouldn't be healthier losing 20 pounds. Again, cutting weight and losing weight are not equal. I'm sure Cohlton Schultz' doctor would suggest that he lose weight for the sake of health.. even if it makes it harder to drive guys OB with an underhook. No offense Schultz.

[Gene Mills Fan]

27 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

They usually don’t though.

Weren’t you just suggesting to change 184/197 to 190/213?  I’m on board with that.  But we don’t need 197 + another weight before heavyweight.  The competition would be extremely watered down

yes but you still want 285 against the cut 220 pounder instead of 265 you just said you want to keep the fat guys or they are going to leave the sport

[1032004]

34 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

yes but you still want 285 against the cut 220 pounder instead of 265 you just said you want to keep the fat guys or they are going to leave the sport

Correct. The cut 220 pounder can often beat the fat 285 pounder. I would bet that even if 197 was increased to 210-220 that you would still see a lot of guys wrestling heavyweight weighing 220-230.  Because heavyweight is easier.

Edited January 8 by 1032004

[Boring]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:52 PM, Gene Mills Fan said:

Right so what we are all saying is a lot of good athletes aren't going to wrestle;(210-235 because they don't want to get stuck under a 285 pounder

Nobody wants to get stuck under a guy 50-100 pounds heavier than he is. I think they should bring back unlimited HWT, but with a caveat: it's still limited, but to 350 pounds. That would allow nearly all the fat boys who are great HS HWTs to continue wrestling in college without giving up on football. 

[Boring]

22 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Evidence of what?  Cassioppi was a 3x AA in 3 NCAA tournaments at heavyweight and lost in the first round of the trials against someone that hadn’t even won a college match at that point and is currently 5-5 at 197 this season.  If anything he helps prove how much easier heavyweight is than 197.

Where is Cassioppi wrestling? I thought he was done? 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, 666 said:

Where is Cassioppi wrestling? I thought he was done? 

That result was from the Olympic Trials

[1032004]

Willie on a roll about this today:

 

this was interesting also

 

 

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Doesn't NWCA have a 235lb weight class outside of NCAA & NAIA wrestling? I have a hard time imagining a new weight being added but it wouldn't be a such a bad idea to bring college weights closer in-line with UWW Senior FS weight classes to mitigate some tweener situations between college and freestyle (e.g., Vito). Dunno how to adjust the existing weights equitably so that there's a good fit with FS and accommodate 18 year olds entering college. Either way, the current NCAA weights seem more or less due for a review, if not a tweaking, if that hasn't already happened. 

[1032004]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:18 AM, Husker_Du said:

Lucas Davison - another one that spent multiple years at 197 before becoming a top 5 hwt.

there is WAY more data that says you can effectively move from 197 to HWT and be great than there is to suggest small heavyweights struggle. 

again, you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. 

Reverse example:

Bradley Hill - 17-8 at heavyweight last year, 7-10 so far this year at 197

[Boring]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Reverse example:

Bradley Hill - 17-8 at heavyweight last year, 7-10 so far this year at 197

190s are generally much better wrestlers than HWTs. They have nearly as much power, and a whole lot more stamina and speed than heavies. The danger is getting trapped under one, but the 190s are so much faster they can usually get out pretty easily.  I know when I was a 190 that I enjoyed wrestling the fat boys, they were easy sauce. Hard to pin, but easy to score lots of point on. Here's something to think about, the next time you watch a dual meet ask yourself how the 190s would do against the HWTs in that dual. Then you have the HWTs that can actually wrestle, like Steveson, Kerk, and Hendricksen. I'd take a hard pass on wrestling those dudes, lol. 

I remember one of ISU's HWT champs, a small heavy, placed at Sr nationals at 97kg (or something like 97kg). 

[1032004]

52 minutes ago, 666 said:

190s are generally much better wrestlers than HWTs. They have nearly as much power, and a whole lot more stamina and speed than heavies.

Agree 100%

[Husker_Du]

how is career 174lber Lance Runyon doing this year? 

[PortaJohn]

30 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

how is career 174lber Lance Runyon doing this year? 

Willie, thoughts on NCAA adopting the international weight classes?  Think it would help with guys wrestling at a more natural weight?  

Edited February 17 by PortaJohn

[Boring]

1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

how is career 174lber Lance Runyon doing this year? 

He's 12-5 against D1 HWT competition, 15-5 overall.  He's gotten beaten pretty bad by all but one of the ranked HWTs he's wrestled (Hendrickson TFall, Schultz by major, Trumble tfall). He does own a win over the #7 HWT per wrestlestat (Mullen, Vtech). 

Edited February 17 by 666

[1032004]

 

 

[The Kid]

On 1/2/2025 at 10:45 AM, BruceyB said:

Yes, the 285s that push each other until one falls on their back and is instantly pinned is much higher level wrestling..

But because they were seniors instead of freshmen that means it's a hard weight class..

If you tried those little kid moves at 285, you will get wrecked.

[bnwtwg]

20 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 

 

This provides more evidence to my argument: if you build it, they will come. If you do not provide opportunities for high school guys to either

1) Cut drastically

2) Provide a next-weight growth outlet that is not in respective line to a 125 moving up to 133 or even 184 to 197

3) Go on a hardcore bulk job and permanently change their body in an undesirable way. Not everyone wants to be 245+ 

Then the numbers will never be there at the college level. The titty boy dancing bears in college are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. They exist the same as itty bitty guys who are career 125s by default - they can fill a roster hole but we all know they aren't doing anything.

[1032004]

30 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

This provides more evidence to my argument: if you build it, they will come. If you do not provide opportunities for high school guys to either

1) Cut drastically

2) Provide a next-weight growth outlet that is not in respective line to a 125 moving up to 133 or even 184 to 197

3) Go on a hardcore bulk job and permanently change their body in an undesirable way. Not everyone wants to be 245+ 

Then the numbers will never be there at the college level. The titty boy dancing bears in college are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. They exist the same as itty bitty guys who are career 125s by default - they can fill a roster hole but we all know they aren't doing anything.

How is this evidence of if you build it they will come?  Looks like we built it and they didn’t come.

[wrestlingfan22]

Wrestling will always be a sport with more lightweights than heavyweights. If you weigh under 165 as an 18+ year old, wrestling is one of the only sports you can realistically compete in at a D1 level; anyone who weighs more than that has way more options and therefore is more likely to end up playing another sport. Also, people tend to be similar in size and stature to their parents, and lots of wrestling parents/former wrestlers are short, so their kids can only get so heavy based on frame restrictions. 

[scourge165]

On 2/17/2025 at 11:06 AM, Boring said:

He's 12-5 against D1 HWT competition, 15-5 overall.  He's gotten beaten pretty bad by all but one of the ranked HWTs he's wrestled (Hendrickson TFall, Schultz by major, Trumble tfall). He does own a win over the #7 HWT per wrestlestat (Mullen, Vtech). 

Actually lost to Mullen and then it appears he beat the 1-8 or 9-16 type HWTs and got beaten pretty badly by the decent to good HWTs. 

Ethan Laird...he was in the Semi's at 197, losing to the NC(Nico from Pitt) and then on the backside to Warner(2nd the year before, only lost to Elam that year, 4X AA) and then Truax who was also a 4X AA(4,4,4,5). 

Bastida also took a 5th as a Freshmen and either hasn't replicated that or hasn't stayed healthy(could that be from a guy tweener having to move up and giving up 30-40 pounds?). And Bastida was a particularly unique case as he was basically giving up a point each match. Lost 1-0 to Elam as he was just getting acclimated to Folkstyle and bottom Wrestling. 

In fact, both of those losses were on RT or taking neutral. 

 

Eh, not conclusory, but not sure Lance Runyon is either. 

[1032004]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Actually lost to Mullen and then it appears he beat the 1-8 or 9-16 type HWTs and got beaten pretty badly by the decent to good HWTs. 

Ethan Laird...he was in the Semi's at 197, losing to the NC(Nico from Pitt) and then on the backside to Warner(2nd the year before, only lost to Elam that year, 4X AA) and then Truax who was also a 4X AA(4,4,4,5). 

Bastida also took a 5th as a Freshmen and either hasn't replicated that or hasn't stayed healthy(could that be from a guy tweener having to move up and giving up 30-40 pounds?). And Bastida was a particularly unique case as he was basically giving up a point each match. Lost 1-0 to Elam as he was just getting acclimated to Folkstyle and bottom Wrestling. 

In fact, both of those losses were on RT or taking neutral. 

 

Eh, not conclusory, but not sure Lance Runyon is either. 

The fact that Bastida has now on multiple occasions been used as an example for someone doing “worse” at 285, IMO is proof that it’s far more common to do better.

I’m not sure how “injured” he really was at the end of this season btw…

[Eagle26]

I don’t think college wrestling really needs a weight class between 297 and 285. It will definitely just make the upper weights even weaker. If they do want to add a weight, that’s not necessarily a bad thing though. They just need to disperse it better among the lighter guys then. The weight before hwt should be no more than 210 IMO. Maybe something like this?
 

126

133

140

147

154

162

170

180

192

207

300