Headgear Toss

[BarSeries]

Team loses by one point due to headgear toss. Ref wrestled for opposing school.

 

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

Team loses by one point due to headgear toss. Ref wrestled for opposing school.

 

I wrestled against both of these teams growing up.  The referee was a former state champ from the team from Nazareth (the team he made the call in favor of) - which makes it extra shady

[billyhoyle]

Better to learn that lesson now than in the state finals. 

[flyingcement]

4 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Better to learn that lesson now than in the state finals. 

What the young man did was not illegal.  Unless you were talking about the ref

[D3 for LU]

8 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I wrestled against both of these teams growing up.  The referee was a former state champ from the team from Nazareth (the team he made the call in favor of) - which makes it extra shady

Well... don't call him Slim Shady,

because he's NOT!

(Kind-of thick in the middle, if you know what I mean!  )

D3

[JimmyCinnabon]

8 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I wrestled against both of these teams growing up.  The referee was a former state champ from the team from Nazareth (the team he made the call in favor of) - which makes it extra shady

Did the kid throw his headgear? If he threw his headgear what difference does it make where the ref went to school?

[Crotalus]

LOL at the guy who just got teched, raising his hands to pump up the crowd like he won them the dual.

[D3 for LU]

Go ahead and look at that short clip that was furnished above... and make your conclusion w/ that.

(Imho... that was a simple sideways toss to me. No throw in an anger/ or tantrum kind of way.)

D3

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

The rule was misapplied.  The ref should probably not be officiating his alma mater, but his status as a state champ isn't relevant.  How was he the rest of the meet?  The good thing is: the misapplied headgear toss caught on film, is much easier to rectify than a set of backpoints or a takedown.  Kids should probably keep their headgear on and straps up until off the mat.  Prevents the ref from making a lot of bad/controversial calls.

And what did EASTON do to get banged for a point?  That couldn't have been a good scene either... that also cost Easton the dual.

[TampaRyley]

This is a ridiculous and wrong call by the ref.

 

Edited December 12 by TampaRyley

[Snoqualmie18]

Is this situation more egregious than the 'slam' call of '93 of which Karam (then at Delaware Valley) was also on the receiving end?  

[HungusMungus]

9 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I wrestled against both of these teams growing up.  The referee was a former state champ from the team from Nazareth (the team he made the call in favor of) - which makes it extra shady

How is this allowed, in Wi most refs will not ref matches with the school they went to or the town they live in. 

I've seen it at STATE a lot where it was their turn in the rotation, but they stepped aside due to the conflict. 

 

[MNRodent]

The intent of the headgear throw penalty is to stop people from whipping it into the crowd or spiking it in a disrespectful way. This kid obviously just tossed it underhand toward the edge of the mat, so the penalty is not called for.

With that said, why even put it in the hands of the (biased) ref for a chance to make a judgement call?

 

[strange_daze]

It's a clear instance of the ref making a bad and maybe even a biased call. There's gray area, sure, but no reasonable person would deduct a point in that moment. 

You could apply the letter of the rules to 'other equipment' as well. So for instance, if a kid tore some tape off his wrist, and 'threw it' off that mat, that, too, could be a penalty. 

Refs are human, but they should also be accountable.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I agree with most on this board who believe the wrong call was made.  I asked the wrong question last time, and I was mistaken as to the dual winner.  Nazareth wins on tiebreaker criteria "a."  That is ROUGH!  

 

[GimJustafan]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

  Kids should probably keep their headgear on and straps up until off the mat.  

exactly / if he keeps them on this isn't even a discussion and all other parts of the story never come into the conversation either such as ref was former state champ from Nazareth

typically, the state Assocation is only aware of the district you currently reside in and will not book you matches when your " home " district is competing dual meet or tournament 

that being said 

ref should have turned  back the assignment when it appeared on is schedule 

 

[mspart]

100%

mspart

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I agree with most on this board who believe the wrong call was made.  I asked the wrong question last time, and I was mistaken as to the dual winner.  Nazareth wins on tiebreaker criteria "a."  That is ROUGH!  

 

Dang, I noticed the team score and was wondering the same thing. Would've been a horrible way to swing the dual.

[flyingcement]

10 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Did the kid throw his headgear? If he threw his headgear what difference does it make where the ref went to school?

No he didn't.  

In the hypothetical world where he did throw it?  Yes it makes a huge difference.  Both of these should be obvious

[flyingcement]

10 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The rule was misapplied.  The ref should probably not be officiating his alma mater, but his status as a state champ isn't relevant.  How was he the rest of the meet?  The good thing is: the misapplied headgear toss caught on film, is much easier to rectify than a set of backpoints or a takedown.  Kids should probably keep their headgear on and straps up until off the mat.  Prevents the ref from making a lot of bad/controversial calls.

And what did EASTON do to get banged for a point?  That couldn't have been a good scene either... that also cost Easton the dual.

I disagree with the boldfaced.  Most people have wrestled on a few different teams over their life - some more positive experiences than others - and that typically impacts the feeling of loyalty to that school.  Winning states indicates the relationship was likely positive and he has a far greater inclination to be biased in favor of his former team in that case.  Its not the major detail, but it is quite relevant.  

[PencilNeck]

Terrible, terrible call. WTF?

 

that said, why do you need take off your headgear and toss it away before even getting your hand raised? Is this part of the resistance of (some) good wrestlers to headgear in general? I don’t know. When I wrestled, I’d always remove my stuff like headgear and singlet straps AFTER leaving the mat. After being involved in scholastic sports for more than a couple of weeks, you learn not to give officials any chance to screw you over.

 

Of course the best thing about the video is the losing (non-penalized) athlete in that bout was seen not wearing headgear and either before the final handshake. I couldn’t tell if he had it in his hands or not. I mean. Why is everyone deciding to undress before the hand-raising?

 

anyway, I almost feel bad for the social media *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*storm that this ref will go through right now, but not really. What a poor call!

[flyingcement]

The opposing kid also had his headgear off when they were shaking hands!  It's hard to do it any more gently than the Easton kid dropped his on the ground.  Where was the other point?

[TampaRyley]

48 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

Terrible, terrible call. WTF?

 

that said, why do you need take off your headgear and toss it away before even getting your hand raised? Is this part of the resistance of (some) good wrestlers to headgear in general? I don’t know. When I wrestled, I’d always remove my stuff like headgear and singlet straps AFTER leaving the mat. After being involved in scholastic sports for more than a couple of weeks, you learn not to give officials any chance to screw you over.

 

Of course the best thing about the video is the losing (non-penalized) athlete in that bout was seen not wearing headgear and either before the final handshake. I couldn’t tell if he had it in his hands or not. I mean. Why is everyone deciding to undress before the hand-raising?

 

anyway, I almost feel bad for the social media *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*storm that this ref will go through right now, but not really. What a poor call!

It does seem like a simple idea to just keep it all together and think why even do that, but I can understand that in the moment the adrenaline is going and emotions are high. I once tossed my mouthpiece of all things to my coach after state finals one year, he probably would’ve preferred the headgear.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

Why not let Physics decide?

If the wrestler just tossed his headgear, there would have been a significant arc involved. The formula for velocity in relation to gravity is v = gt where "v" is the velocity, "g" is the acceleration due to gravity (approximately 9.8 m/s² on Earth), and "t" is the time elapsed; essentially, the velocity of a falling object is calculated by multiplying the acceleration due to gravity by the time it has been falling.

Let's use an analogy. I would consider a toss to be how you throw a baseball to your three-to-five-year-old boy when playing catch. A throw is what he starts to get when he is six. At seven, he gets the heat. 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

And I'm not saying this just because I want all refs to know that ILLINI fans love them and treasure them and respect them and want the good calls in the future. Sure, that's part of it, but there's also Physics.