Shapiro looks concussed again....

[Hammerlock3]

Didn't look bad to me but who knows how brains work.

Any insight into this? Its an odd situation...sort of want to say I hope he's just a drama queen, which is a lot better situation than him being hyper concussion prone and the staff not caring. 

[flyingcement]

I saw the match with Harrington and it didn't look good.  

What worries me is that when you have a few concussions, they become easier to get.  I saw the two moments that caused they to stop the match and it didn't look like anything out of the normal (though Shapiro did not look to be faking it).  

It's such a serious issue - I hope he takes the year off and takes care of his brain.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Brain injuries are cumulative, sadly.  This may curtail a promising career.  Sad.

[tgsp93]

He was being a total drama queen.  I was there all day and after the match he was fine walking around talking with everyone.  He started to get pushed by someone he didn't think should push him and he broke.  I was right there.  Just watch how slowly his coaches walked out to him, it was like "oh ok here we go again".  Don't get me wrong he is an amazing wrestler, but maturity is an issue with Meyer. 

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, tgsp93 said:

He was being a total drama queen.  I was there all day and after the match he was fine walking around talking with everyone.  He started to get pushed by someone he didn't think should push him and he broke.  I was right there.  Just watch how slowly his coaches walked out to him, it was like "oh ok here we go again".  Don't get me wrong he is an amazing wrestler, but maturity is an issue with Meyer. 

You, sir, are delusional.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

You, sir, are delusional.

4 posts...

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

You, sir, are delusional.

I don't know if he's right or not....I mean, I assume he's not because I tend to give athletes at that level the benefit of the doubt...but the real flaw there is in his asinine logic.

Walking around and talking to people fine after the match is NOT indicative of having or NOT having had a concussion. Acting like it's a sprained ankle is foolish. 

 

I will say, I wonder if it'd benefit this kid to take a year off. A full year just not Wrestling, hitting his head. Just lifting, running, healing. I'm not aware how it works at Cornell. If he withdrew from classes, would he still have 3 years left?

[Hammerlock3]

9 hours ago, tgsp93 said:

He was being a total drama queen.  I was there all day and after the match he was fine walking around talking with everyone.  He started to get pushed by someone he didn't think should push him and he broke.  I was right there.  Just watch how slowly his coaches walked out to him, it was like "oh ok here we go again".  Don't get me wrong he is an amazing wrestler, but maturity is an issue with Meyer. 

I wouldn't put it this way but I am getting a little of this vibe myself, mostly from how the coaching staff seems to react to him, but bizarrely this might just be wishful thinking on my part.

[CHROMEBIRD]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I will say, I wonder if it'd benefit this kid to take a year off. A full year just not Wrestling, hitting his head. Just lifting, running, healing. I'm not aware how it works at Cornell. If he withdrew from classes, would he still have 3 years left?

I am not super confident that the Ivy League would grant him a medical hardship waiver and would guess that he will have to burn a year. Worth it, though. If his head injuries are anywhere as serious as they seem to be, you don't wanna FA and FO with stuff like that.

[TylerDurden]

10 hours ago, tgsp93 said:

He was being a total drama queen.  I was there all day and after the match he was fine walking around talking with everyone.  He started to get pushed by someone he didn't think should push him and he broke.  I was right there.  Just watch how slowly his coaches walked out to him, it was like "oh ok here we go again".  Don't get me wrong he is an amazing wrestler, but maturity is an issue with Meyer. 

Friends don't let friends drink and post on Intermat. 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I am not super confident that the Ivy League would grant him a medical hardship waiver and would guess that he will have to burn a year. Worth it, though. If his head injuries are anywhere as serious as they seem to be, you don't wanna FA and FO with stuff like that.

Sure, it'd be worth it and I don't think they would grant him a medical...which is why I'm asking if he can still drop his classes, then you don't need any exceptions or anything. But I don't know where they are, when the deadlines would be. November 13th feels pretty late(and it's just my own hypothetical). 

Your head or back/neck. I'm not trying to deal with injuries to either. 

[1032004]

48 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Sure, it'd be worth it and I don't think they would grant him a medical...which is why I'm asking if he can still drop his classes, then you don't need any exceptions or anything. But I don't know where they are, when the deadlines would be. November 13th feels pretty late(and it's just my own hypothetical). 

Your head or back/neck. I'm not trying to deal with injuries to either. 

Does the Ivy League grant medical hardship waivers?  I thought that was the NCAA.

I know the Ivy has their clock rule though.  Even if he stays in school this semester couldn’t he unenroll next semester and then for a future season only wrestle in the spring or something?

[Elevator]

Sucks for Shapiro that he is having concussion issues.  Discretion is the better part of valor once these problems arise.  Even what seems to be subconcussive events can cause further damage.  I feel really bad for him but hope he does not hang on too long. 

[Fletcher]

On 11/13/2024 at 8:27 AM, tgsp93 said:

He was being a total drama queen.  I was there all day and after the match he was fine walking around talking with everyone.  He started to get pushed by someone he didn't think should push him and he broke.  I was right there.  Just watch how slowly his coaches walked out to him, it was like "oh ok here we go again".  Don't get me wrong he is an amazing wrestler, but maturity is an issue with Meyer. 

The only thing worse than a drama queen is a drama queen who's better at wrestling than I am at anything I'll do in my entire life.

[CHROMEBIRD]

17 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Does the Ivy League grant medical hardship waivers?  I thought that was the NCAA.

I know the Ivy has their clock rule though.  Even if he stays in school this semester couldn’t he unenroll next semester and then for a future season only wrestle in the spring or something?

I thought the conference OKs medical redshirts and appeals go to the NCAA, although with today's NCAA I suppose almost everything will become permissible

[Hammerlock3]

5 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I thought the conference OKs medical redshirts and appeals go to the NCAA, although with today's NCAA I suppose almost everything will become permissible

But medical redshirts for concussions is tricky, you wouldn't have to fake them given how ubiquitous the symptoms are, and I don't think there is way to medically declare someone "recovered", it would be like declaring free redshirts for all.

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

But medical redshirts for concussions is tricky, you wouldn't have to fake them given how ubiquitous the symptoms are, and I don't think there is way to medically declare someone "recovered", it would be like declaring free redshirts for all.

No...it really wouldn't be like "free redshirts for all."

It's pretty simple. Dr says you're suffering from concussions.

You come back and you're "recovered" because you're not showing any signs of post-concussion syndrome. 

People realize this isn't theoretical, right? This HAS actually happened before? He also Wrestled as a True Freshmen, so the issue isn't the NCAA, it's Cornell and the Ivy and their rules.

 

This isn't 19th-century Archaeology in which they tried to declare the intellect of a person based on the shape of their skulls. Dr's can test for concussions and in Shapiro's case in particular, having had a history(as well as those silly Dr's for some reason prioritizing the health of the brain) I'm thinking they'd have a baseline and be inclined to grant one...if that was the issue. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 11/13/2024 at 11:07 AM, BigRedFan said:

You, sir, are delusional.

Kinda crazy, but I heard a respected wrestling journalist say something fairly similar to what "Mr. 4 Posts" said.  I was pretty surprised to hear this!

[BigRedFan]

10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Kinda crazy, but I heard a respected wrestling journalist say something fairly similar to what "Mr. 4 Posts" said.  I was pretty surprised to hear this!

I've watched every match Shapiro has wrestled since skipping his senior HS year (there may have been a couple that weren't streamed).  I've never seen Shapiro "break" unless he was dropped on his head, and then it is pretty obvious there was an issue.

It's clear that Shapiro passes whatever concussion protocol tests they administer during a match if he returns to the mat and attempts to finish the match.  They wouldn't let him back if he didn't.

In the match in question, he clearly wasn't being "pushed," having taken his opponent down twice with yet-to-be-described-in-the-literature TDs prior to attempting a throw that misfired.  He won the U20 world tournament by coming back from behind twice (down 4-2 with < 1:00 to go in the 1/8, and down 4-0 in the final including getting a cut on his head needing a wrap), without being a drama queen.  The idea that he would break and fold when getting taken down by a "lesser" opponent is, well, delusional.

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

I've watched every match Shapiro has wrestled since skipping his senior HS year (there may have been a couple that weren't streamed).  I've never seen Shapiro "break" unless he was dropped on his head, and then it is pretty obvious there was an issue.

It's clear that Shapiro passes whatever concussion protocol tests they administer during a match if he returns to the mat and attempts to finish the match.  They wouldn't let him back if he didn't.

In the match in question, he clearly wasn't being "pushed," having taken his opponent down twice with yet-to-be-described-in-the-literature TDs prior to attempting a throw that misfired.  He won the U20 world tournament by coming back from behind twice (down 4-2 with < 1:00 to go in the 1/8, and down 4-0 in the final including getting a cut on his head needing a wrap), without being a drama queen.  The idea that he would break and fold when getting taken down by a "lesser" opponent is, well, delusional.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with almost anything here, just passing along what I heard.  However, do I remember him being let on the mat after being concussed last year?  Maybe CKLV?

[scorenomore]

Shapiro has his issues for sure, but in watching the match, clearly he is suffering from head injuries.  This is really sad because once it happens, it is very unlikely to be reversed.

The only one to overcome that I am aware of is Helen Maroulis.  She had to step away, get some type of special treatment and seems to have recovered quite nicely.

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I'm not disagreeing with almost anything here, just passing along what I heard.  However, do I remember him being let on the mat after being concussed last year?  Maybe CKLV?

If he qualified as having had a concussion, by definition (and common sense) he would not have been allowed back on the mat.  We don't know what protocols he passed by medical staff to allow him to attempt to continue.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, BigRedFan said:

If he qualified as having had a concussion, by definition (and common sense) he would not have been allowed back on the mat.  We don't know what protocols he passed by medical staff to allow him to attempt to continue.

But this did happen, correct?  CKLV?

And the medical staff should not be making that type of error.  Not really ok.

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

If he qualified as having had a concussion, by definition (and common sense) he would not have been allowed back on the mat.  We don't know what protocols he passed by medical staff to allow him to attempt to continue.

I have my doubts about the protocols.

And this is not a Cornell criticism, it is a sport criticism, but we saw it with Yianni Diakomihalis in Colorado at the challenge tournament against Nick Lee. He was so clearly concussed, but passed the protocols. Those were UWW protocols, not NCAA, but I think it is a sport wide problem. We seem to see if every week in the NFL, especially with Tua Tagovailoa. Tagovailoa has passed concussion protocols and returned to the game multiple times in his career when it is clear he should not have.

I have no idea about Meyer Shapiro, as I have not even seen the match in question, I just do not think passing the concussion protocol is as definitive as it should be.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I have my doubts about the protocols.

And this is not a Cornell criticism, it is a sport criticism, but we saw it with Yianni Diakomihalis in Colorado at the challenge tournament against Nick Lee. He was so clearly concussed, but passed the protocols. Those were UWW protocols, not NCAA, but I think it is a sport wide problem. We seem to see if every week in the NFL, especially with Tua Tagovailoa. Tagovailoa has passed concussion protocols and returned to the game multiple times in his career when it is clear he should not have.

I have no idea about Meyer Shapiro, as I have not even seen the match in question, I just do not think passing the concussion protocol is as definitive as it should be.

I agree.  I also think trainers/doctors feel pressure from coaches and coaches need to use the eyeball test and do what is best for the kid.  That's the direction I was going with this.

I would also add obvious examples of David Taylor in his first worlds (I think) and Berge.  Not to pick on PSU/NLWC (for once), just because it was pretty obvious what was happening and both were widely viewed.  I'm sure there are a million others we never even think of or didn't notice.