Identifying Left vs Right Values

[jross]

This table attempts to break down major differences in progressive (left) and conservative (right) values on government, society, and personal responsibility. It attempts to show how each side sees key issues, from justice to individual rights.  Is it accurate?  My hope is to understand views to have a better discussion of where someone is coming from.

This does not cover traditional liberalism, which differs from modern leftism. For example, John F. Kennedy, a liberal Democrat, believed that fundamental freedoms were rights granted by God rather than the state.  When I think of Democrats today, my first thought is that the majority are now the progressive left portrayed in the media.  Is that true?

 

[Tripnsweep]

I don't think this is accurate at all. 

[Caveira]

6 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

I don't think this is accurate at all. 

As usual you’re totally specific.  Seems accurate to me.  

[jross]

This chart shows broad themes, not strict rules, and lacks nuance. It doesn’t imply everyone fully aligns with these views on the left or right. The goal is clarity, not debate or criticism.

I started with a more detailed analysis and then abstracted into a guide.

What needs better clarity?

[red viking]

Lol. Obviously written by more right wing media. What a joke. 

[VakAttack]

"I want to have a serious conversation"

 

*Posts cartoonish chart*

[Lipdrag]

21 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

"I want to have a serious conversation"

 

*Posts cartoonish chart*

He invited you and all with different opinions to fix it.  Start drafting your brief, counselor, and dispense with the snark.

[VakAttack]

14 minutes ago, Lipdrag said:

He invited you and all with different opinions to fix it.  Start drafting your brief, counselor, and dispense with the snark.

Lol.  The chart is filled with snark. Classic demand for other people to abide by some standard of decorum while the other side of the debate doesn't.

Edited November 11 by VakAttack

[RockLobster]

Ha!!

36 rows and 2 columns. 

If we ever needed an illustration for severe and wrongheaded oversimplification - we now have it.

I'll do it one better:

Policy = Who's best?
Right = It's us
Left = <insert silly representation of left here that makes them look bad>

Edited November 11 by RockLobster

[jross]

This isn't a debate.

Correct the chart.

[jross]

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/progressive-left/

• Favor a bigger government providing more services
• Government services should “greatly expand” from current levels
• Broadly support substantial hikes in tax rates for large corporations and high-income households
• Sizable majorities say White people benefit from societal advantages that Black people do not have
• Most U.S. institutions need to be completely rebuilt to ensure equal rights for all Americans regardless of race or ethnicity
• Positive views of political leaders who describe themselves as democratic socialists.
• 10% warm feelings to Republicans on a scale of 1 to 100
• Success in life is largely outside of an individual’s control.
• Personal fortunes are bad for the country
• There are other countries better than the U.S.
• Use renewable energy only
• Illegal immigrants make their new communities better
• Transgender acceptance is good
• Strongly support BLM
• Country needs more attention to historic slavery and racism
• Spending on police should decrease
• Highest share of Covid vaccinators and mask wearers

[jross]

This is a decent representation...

 

[Tripnsweep]

4 hours ago, jross said:

This is a decent representation...

 

That's almost as ridiculous. 

[jross]

Why is it that you cannot define a progressive left?  

How does the progressive party define itself?

https://progressives.house.gov/the-progressive-promise

[WrestlingRasta]

Nothing like being a strong advocate for division. 

[jross]

3 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Nothing like being a strong advocate for division. 

Sure it might seem like division, however, its more about understanding. 

For example, I prefer subsidized education tied to performance: students with good grades would have their education covered, while those with poor grades would need to pay back some or all of the costs.  And I like no-tuition college where students work for their education.

It’s progressive to subsidize costs, while conservative to tie it to performance.  I'm moderate right on education.  

 

[jross]

On abortion, those who lean firmly right believe the fetus is a person with the natural right to life.

The mother is driving the car, while the unborn child "fetus", as a passenger, still has rights. Given this belief in personhood, it’s bewildering that so many abortions— even after viability— result in intentionally ending a pregnancy without a life-threatening reason.

It’s also confusing that if a pregnant mother loses her baby in a holdup, the criminal can be charged with the unborn child's murder. Yet, a mother's elective choice to terminate the pregnancy is seen as within her rights, regardless of the fetus’s personhood.

I’m not looking to argue the morals of abortion, but rather to understand if the left believes the value of a fetus is whatever the mother decides. If that’s the case, it would explain many of the common compromises.

[RockLobster]

13 hours ago, jross said:

This isn't a debate.

Correct the chart.

Everything is a debate - it's the very essence of why this forum exists.

Correct your chart!?

Delete that disaster of a chart, child. Then go back to school to realize how much you have to learn.

[RockLobster]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Sure it might seem like division, however, its more about understanding. 

For example, I prefer subsidized education tied to performance: students with good grades would have their education covered, while those with poor grades would need to pay back some or all of the costs.  And I like no-tuition college where students work for their education.

It’s progressive to subsidize costs, while conservative to tie it to performance.  I'm moderate right on education.  

... ah, just like it's done in China.

Grading performance and rewarding those that perform better while penalizing those that don't.

Very Chinese of you. And among the most simple minded perspectives possible.

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, jross said:

On abortion, those who lean firmly right believe the fetus is a person with the natural right to life.

The mother is driving the car, while the unborn child "fetus", as a passenger, still has rights. Given this belief in personhood, it’s bewildering that so many abortions— even after viability— result in intentionally ending a pregnancy without a life-threatening reason.

It’s also confusing that if a pregnant mother loses her baby in a holdup, the criminal can be charged with the unborn child's murder. Yet, a mother's elective choice to terminate the pregnancy is seen as within her rights, regardless of the fetus’s personhood.

I’m not looking to argue the morals of abortion, but rather to understand if the left believes the value of a fetus is whatever the mother decides. If that’s the case, it would explain many of the common compromises.

"On abortion"...

Might as well stop there. You have shown you are clearly not intellectually capable of any type of serious discussion.

[Lipdrag]

11 hours ago, RockLobster said:

"On abortion"...

Might as well stop there. You have shown you are clearly not intellectually capable of any type of serious discussion.

jross, abortion is not allowed to be said.  The acceptable rightthink term is Reproductive Health. 

Weird how health in this context means the death of at least 50% of the people involved and results in no reproduction almost 100% of the time.  In fact, when it results in reproduction it is considered a failure and often the person produced is denied any health care.

[red viking]

Left wing values: liberty, the Constitution, economic opportunity, education, science, fair treatment for all

Right wing values: censorship, ramming values down others throats, maximizing economic disparity, propaganda and bigotry.

How 'bout that chart? 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

29 minutes ago, red viking said:

Left wing values: liberty, the Constitution, economic opportunity, education, science, fair treatment for all

Right wing values: censorship, ramming values down others throats, maximizing economic disparity, propaganda and bigotry.

How 'bout that chart? 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-kerry-says-the-first-amendment-is-getting-in-the-way-of-online-censorship/ar-AA1rqkR8?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=289ab17f91f049a7dcaee9c546c0600e&ei=17

That pesky 1st amendment!

Edited November 12 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[jross]

Here is an attempt to put views onto the concepts.  Thoughts?

 

Both the left and right oppose bigotry and prejudice.

Edited November 12 by jross
made the table an image for visibility improvement

[mspart]

Interesting discussion JR.   It does not seem to be much appreciated by our left of center friends.  

mspart