Who can be the next Spencer in terms of program impact?

[AgaveMaria]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Spencer turned around Iowa and started the PA pipeline (which has since dried up). If not for injuries he would have been a 4x NCAA champ.

Is Bassett to Iowa the next Spencer? Or Jax to Ok State?

Or Blaze to Ohio State?

If not for Matt Ramos he would have been a 4x NCAA Champ?

Give Ramos Credit just as we do to Larry Owings beating Dan Gable.

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

If not for Matt Ramos he would have been a 4x NCAA Champ?

Give Ramos Credit just as we do to Larry Owings beating Dan Gable.

Yeah but Gable had not lost before so bit different.  Picc showed the way.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Yes, but the tournament was not wrestled in 2020. I fixed the wording.

Even if wrestled in 2020, I feel he has a tough time winning.  If I remember correctly, he tore an ACL in B10 final and was struggling in practice.  I could easily be thinking about a different year though.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

20 hours ago, scourge165 said:

...he's literally just ranking their finishes and then saying, 'did he turn Iowa around or just add to an already great program.'

 

Is that really such a ridiculous post he could only do so under the influence of some mind-altering drug?

There are multiple errors in the post, I counted 5 after a cursory glance. The most egregious one is 2023. Iowa placed 9th? C'mon, this stuff isn't hard

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

There are multiple errors in the post, I counted 5 after a cursory glance. The most egregious one is 2023. Iowa placed 9th? C'mon, this stuff isn't hard

I'd copied pasted from a search, and then corrected it when it was called out.

 

19 hours ago, alex1fly said:

Looks like my Google search failed me. Here's what NCAA.com says from a 2022 article.

 

2014-2015	Tom Brands	17-1	T-1st	2nd
2015-2016	Tom Brands	16-1	2nd	5th
2016-2017	Tom Brands	13-2	3rd	4th
2017-2018	Tom Brands	12-3	4th	3rd
2018-2019	Tom Brands	14-1	3rd	4th
2019-2020	Tom Brands	13-0	1st	N/A
2020-2021	Tom Brands	5-0	1st	1st

I'm still skeptical of the claim that Lee turned the program around.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

There are multiple errors in the post, I counted 5 after a cursory glance. The most egregious one is 2023. Iowa placed 9th? C'mon, this stuff isn't hard

Here's my post correction 

[WrestlingRash]

On 9/26/2024 at 7:16 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Spencer turned around Iowa and started the PA pipeline (which has since dried up). If not for injuries he would have been a 4x NCAA champ.

Is Bassett to Iowa the next Spencer? Or Jax to Ok State?

Or Blaze to Ohio State?

injuries? he would have been a 4 time champ if he didn't get pinned when we was ahead. 

[scourge165]

6 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

There are multiple errors in the post, I counted 5 after a cursory glance. The most egregious one is 2023. Iowa placed 9th? C'mon, this stuff isn't hard

My bad. I should have looked closer to the finishes...

 

Quote

I'm still skeptical of the claim that Lee turned the program around.

I still agree with @alex1flypoint. He didn't "turn the program around," as they were elite before, they were elite after...they're Iowa. Gable turned them around. Cael turned PSU around. I don't know that one Wrestler can turn a program around, but I definitely don't think a Wrestler can turn a program that's already one of the couple blue blood programs around.

 

Lee was great for Iowa. I DO think he would have been a 4X Champ if not for injury. I don't think it's as simple as he got pinned when he was winning, he was gassing that year because I don't know how you can be in the type of shape you really need to be in if you have knees like he did(and we've seen him recently, he's in MUCH better shape after being healthy). 

And I also reiterate, this is a stupid thread...but as long as people are taking it seriously...that's my opinion. 

Edited September 27 by scourge165

[scourge165]

20 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

If not for Matt Ramos he would have been a 4x NCAA Champ?

Give Ramos Credit just as we do to Larry Owings beating Dan Gable.

Yeah...we can. But we can also concede that Lee wasn't healthy and...if he were, he probably wins it the year before and is out of College at this point OR if he's healthy, he's not gassing and doesn't end up in that position.

Ramos is an outstanding Wrestler...but it's not the same as Owings. At least not in my opinion. 

But this is also...fairly common. 

[AgaveMaria]

Scourge 165 wrote: "they're Iowa. Gable turned them around. Cael turned PSU around."

Gary Kurdelmeier turned Iowa around with Dan Gable on his staff. Then Gable took over as head coach.

Cael & Co did turn Penn State around.

Lee got pinned, plain and simple. Then he quit rather than wrestle back trying to place third.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

44 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Scourge 165 wrote: "they're Iowa. Gable turned them around. Cael turned PSU around."

Gary Kurdelmeier turned Iowa around with Dan Gable on his staff. Then Gable took over as head coach.

Cael & Co did turn Penn State around.

Lee got pinned, plain and simple. Then he quit rather than wrestle back trying to place third.

He didn’t quit. He was badly injured. 

[ionel]

43 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

He didn’t quit. He was badly injured. 

Whats that say for guys who were badly injured but didn't quit? 

[Maxwell Smart]

There was a time that Iowa was elite, but when you win one title since the 2014-2015 season, you're not elite. Couple that with other programs producing more individual champions than you in that time period, and you're actually falling behind. My first post on this forum was that I didn't understand the adulation for Tom and Terry when the results didn't match the adulation. Wrestlers used to want to go to Iowa, doesn't seem that way any more. The transfer portal must be their friend.

 

 

[lisa morales]

I'm very upset that poor Spencer has gone bald.  He'll probably end up with an ugly wife.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, lisa morales said:

I'm very upset that poor Spencer has gone bald.  He'll probably end up with an ugly wife.

Said the ugly wife

[boathead]

The question is who'll turn a program around...and nobody "turned" Iowa around.
 

This

Sent from my F92 E 5G using Tapatalk

[Alces Alces Gigas]

When you are the only national champ in a room with a few AAs you get serious recognition, especially in a town that was once a wrestling Mecca.

[CHROMEBIRD]

When people say Marinelli turned the team around, maybe they mean Moriah? Joking aside, he wrestled at a really deep and tough weight. I seem to remember his senior year bracket being especially brutal. Wasn't his recruitment was kind of a big deal at the time as well? 

[scourge165]

20 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Scourge 165 wrote: "they're Iowa. Gable turned them around. Cael turned PSU around."

Gary Kurdelmeier turned Iowa around with Dan Gable on his staff. Then Gable took over as head coach.

Cael & Co did turn Penn State around.

Lee got pinned, plain and simple. Then he quit rather than wrestle back trying to place third.

Yeah, I know the chronology. Gable came in and they were almost immediately dominant.

Lee got pinned...if you think it's plain and simple, cool. I don't care enough about this to argue if water is wet.  

[JimmyCinnabon]

On 9/26/2024 at 11:03 AM, scourge165 said:

I don't quite have this recollection of Marinelli. What years do you think he should have been a NC? Or could have if not for seeding?

It's quite the take to have on Marinelli who only ever made it to the semis one time I believe and never finished better than 5th at the NCAA tournament. He was a fantastic wrestler but the grind of the NCAA tournament was always too much for him.

[Elevator]

On 9/26/2024 at 11:06 AM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

He was a 4x Big 10 champ, right. That is pretty impressive.  Most of those guys prob win at least one title.  Kind of surprising he didn't get at least one, tbh.

I just looked it up, and honestly not sure if it is 100% accurate, but I believe there are 16 4x B10 champs and he is the only one not to win NCAA.

unlucky is all

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

unlucky is all

... or simply another casualty of the jimmy jinx?  

[Smsu150]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:37 AM, Maxwell Smart said:

There was a time that Iowa was elite, but when you win one title since the 2014-2015 season, you're not elite. Couple that with other programs producing more individual champions than you in that time period, and you're actually falling behind. My first post on this forum was that I didn't understand the adulation for Tom and Terry when the results didn't match the adulation. Wrestlers used to want to go to Iowa, doesn't seem that way any more. The transfer portal must be their friend.

 

 

Based on your assessment, there is only one elite program. Or did I miss something?