Should Fix hang up the boots?

[jackwebster]

My question for Rash is: Retire to do what? As far as I can tell, his life has been devoted to wrestling since ever. He's had success since ever. And, he's still better than all but a handful of people in the world. Most importantly, it sounds like he doesn't want to hang up the boots. (This last bit is really the only thing that matters . . . unless he has obligations that wrestling would interfere with.)

Imagine if my dad was convinced he had to sell his herd bc he wasn't Charlie Goodnight. Imagine if Na-Kel Smith called it quits bc he wasn't Tyshawn Jones. Or ... more to the point ... Don't most of us get up everyday knowing we aren't the absolute best at what we do but still manage to find something satisfying about out lives, something satisfying enough to make us get up the next day and do it again?

[Ched64]

On 9/17/2024 at 6:10 PM, fishbane said:

Fix has a chance against anyone in this country.  He's beaten them all Gilman, Gross, Arujau, Lee, Suriano.

I would bet against Fix beating Arujau at 133lbs, but down at 57kg it's different.  Fix could get it done there. He could be the rep in 4 years.

 

Him making the cut to 57k 4 years from now seems highly unlikely.  That said, as others have noted, he is hardly over the hill age wise, has a refreshed training situation and on any given day can go with any of those other guys.  The OSU room when he was there had no one at his level and the John Smith mystique was badly tarnished.  I certainly wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him make another world team. I love Vito but he didn’t exactly crush Fix in this years ncaa final nor did he crush Blaze in the X matches.  All those guys are very close so I think it premature to count Fix out though get it why some have doubts.

[Ched64]

8 hours ago, jackwebster said:

My question for Rash is: Retire to do what? As far as I can tell, his life has been devoted to wrestling since ever. He's had success since ever. And, he's still better than all but a handful of people in the world. Most importantly, it sounds like he doesn't want to hang up the boots. (This last bit is really the only thing that matters . . . unless he has obligations that wrestling would interfere with.)

Imagine if my dad was convinced he had to sell his herd bc he wasn't Charlie Goodnight. Imagine if Na-Kel Smith called it quits bc he wasn't Tyshawn Jones. Or ... more to the point ... Don't most of us get up everyday knowing we aren't the absolute best at what we do but still manage to find something satisfying about out lives, something satisfying enough to make us get up the next day and do it again?

Great post here…real life considerations

[CHROMEBIRD]

Fix should keep competing for as long as he is able and wants to, but I am getting a little bit of a Dieringer vibe from him. Solid wrestler, high ceiling, could go toe-to-toe against high level international competition... if he could only make our World or Olympic team. 

[The Kid]

On 9/17/2024 at 9:58 AM, jchapman said:

He is a Junior World Champ and a Senior World Silver Medalist.  Some may say this is getting it done, but I realize this is subjective.

That's the past. He also was popped for peds.  But yeah, his future is limitless. Multiple world championships are in his future.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, The Kid said:

That's the past. He also was popped for peds.  But yeah, his future is limitless. Multiple world championships are in his future.

none of the 4 sentences in this post have anything to do with each other.

[jackwebster]

When I read online debates, I get the false impression that two voices, each defending one side of a binary opposition, are speaking from on-high, Moses-style. All nuance is lost as I sort, strike, and taxonomize the polyphony into a warring, contradiction-filled dialogue. At some point even the binary opposition is lost, and I just hear the single oracular voice of the Internet. Everything all at once with divine authority.

 

[BloodRound]

I wouldn't count out Daton Fix, as so many others have expressed.  Hoping for him to open up though?  Hmm...

[jackwebster]

On 9/17/2024 at 8:17 PM, billyhoyle said:

He absolutely needs to keep competing. The guy is great to have on the ladder. 

Your post points out the Catch-22 of these debates: we slag one-and-done guys --even Sanderson -- bc they compromise USA Wrestling's depth, and we slag guys for their Uncle Rico fantasies. 

Edited September 19 by jackwebster

[mspart]

2 hours ago, BloodRound said:

I wouldn't count out Daton Fix, as so many others have expressed.  Hoping for him to open up though?  Hmm...

I agree with this.   He has not been able to make that jump though.   If he is to continue, I would think he needs to figure out how to make that jump and be the guy to beat.   I think he shuts down when he hits real competition and doesn't wrestle like Daton Fix.   Hence he loses the big matches.   I agree that he is one of the best wrestlers of recent memory.   The problem is that in today's world, that is not enough.  He has not figured out how to make that jump.   Perhaps with DT at OSU now, he might have mentorship that will allow that to happen.  

But, he should continue as long as he finds fulfillment in wrestling.   He is fun to watch. 

mspart

[Ched64]

9 hours ago, mspart said:

I agree with this.   He has not been able to make that jump though.   If he is to continue, I would think he needs to figure out how to make that jump and be the guy to beat.   I think he shuts down when he hits real competition and doesn't wrestle like Daton Fix.   Hence he loses the big matches.   I agree that he is one of the best wrestlers of recent memory.   The problem is that in today's world, that is not enough.  He has not figured out how to make that jump.   Perhaps with DT at OSU now, he might have mentorship that will allow that to happen.  

But, he should continue as long as he finds fulfillment in wrestling.   He is fun to watch. 

mspart

And you go into his matches knowing he has the talent to beat his opponent no matter who that might be which is fun as a spectator

[CalWrestler]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:47 PM, WrestlingRash said:

He can't get it done when it counts. Never has been able to. Can't beat the top guys, and can't make the lighter weight, and wouldn't matter if he did because he isn't beating Spencer.  Too short for his current weight. Plus he just lost to a high school kid. Where does he go from here? MMA? 

He's already beaten Spencer Lee and he's at about the same level now, if he can handle the weight cut to 57.  Fix is one of the better light weights and there are a handful of guys that are capable of winning 57 or 61.  Fix absolutely should keep wrestling as long as he wants.

[Hammerlock3]

13 minutes ago, CalWrestler said:

He's already beaten Spencer Lee and he's at about the same level now, if he can handle the weight cut to 57.  Fix is one of the better light weights and there are a handful of guys that are capable of winning 57 or 61.  Fix absolutely should keep wrestling as long as he wants.

How is he at about he same level as spencer lee now? How is 'if he can cut to 57' a fair qualifier for an argument?

[de4856]

Daton was just at 57 earlier this year at the OTT and couldn’t get past Gilman. So I don’t know what his future will be at 57. But on the other hand who knows what Spencer will be doing in 2028. 

[maligned]

Retire. No. But does he need to evolve considerably a la Kyle Dake in his mid/late 20s to become the best--definitely. 

It's not about "opening up" as so many say. The only attacks he has confidence with are straight-on, lower-half attacks off of ties in close. He's never developed an outside game and he's never developed any attacks above the waist.

When he faces a long, athletic guy that can keep space or a physical guy with good head/hands defense, he looks like he's not "opening up" because he simply doesn't have the weapon in the holster to fire anything. If he'd ever added the constant threat of a strong Russian tie series for trips and throws, for example, he'd be an Olympic champ, in my opinion.

[BigRedFan]

On 9/18/2024 at 7:11 PM, Ched64 said:

I love Vito but he didn’t exactly crush Fix in this years ncaa final nor did he crush Blaze in the X matches.

In those three matches, only one guy was actually wrestling.

Trivia question:  who was the only wrestler to bonus Fix in Fix's NCAA career?  Bonus:  who was the only wrestler to beat Fix by more than two points in Fix's NCAA career?

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, maligned said:

It's not about "opening up" as so many say. The only attacks he has confidence with are straight-on . . .  he's never developed any attacks above the waist.

I think you're right about the "opening up" criticisms. It's not that he's holding back or too tentative. He just doesn't have a a leg attack beyond the lefty Hi-C and, as you note, it's "straight-on." He can't get to it in the middle of a scramble or from a variety of ties. 

I don't agree with the last part. He has two "above the waist" attacks, though "attack" might be the wrong word. Early in his career, the over-tie shrug and over-under inside trip (I consider this as an upper body tech) were his go-tos. His early success with these techniques sorta ended up being a curse. Esp the inside trip. Big time, crowd-pleasing technique when it worked, but the opportunities just weren't there when folks recognized he didn't have much else. (BTW he had a similar problem on bottom. His go-to was a leg wing-roll?).

Another area that I imagined would improve was his scrambling. Again, early in his career, he had success with a few flashy techniques: the rubber-knee to that switch position reach thing, the water-fall position far-ankle scramble, and combinations of the two. Problem is that he got too comfortable giving up his legs. 

Edited September 20 by jackwebster

[juniorvarsity]

By this morons nihilistic logic, nobody should wrestle except like 15 people.

[maligned]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

I think you're right about the "opening up" criticisms. It's not that he's holding back or too tentative. He just doesn't have a a leg attack beyond the lefty Hi-C and, as you note, it's "straight-on." He can't get to it in the middle of a scramble or from a variety of ties. 

I don't agree with the last part. He has two "above the waist" attacks, though "attack" might be the wrong word. Early in his career, the over-tie shrug and over-under inside trip (I consider this as an upper body tech) were his go-tos. His early success with these techniques sorta ended up being a curse. Esp the inside trip. Big time, crowd-pleasing technique when it worked, but the opportunities just weren't there when folks recognized he didn't have much else. (BTW he had a similar problem on bottom. His go-to was a leg wing-roll?).

Another area that I imagined would improve was his scrambling. Again, early in his career, he had success with a few flashy techniques: the rubber-knee to that switch position reach thing, the water-fall position far-ankle scramble, and combinations of the two. Problem is that he got too comfortable giving up his legs. 

Very good points. I'll just refine what I was saying by clarifying that 1) I was more talking about freestyle (some of which doesn't apply to your discussion...your points are valid for some of his free, plus his folk issues, nonetheless, of course), and 2) I'm talking about "anytime" setups and attacks rather than opportunistic ones (I think you'd agree an over/under trip generally falls into that category...it's telegraphed for miles late in a match if the other guy isn't looking for scores). His "lack", as you agreed, is "anytime" outside or upper-body setups and attacks.

Edited September 20 by maligned

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

I think you're right about the "opening up" criticisms. It's not that he's holding back or too tentative. He just doesn't have a a leg attack beyond the lefty Hi-C and, as you note, it's "straight-on." He can't get to it in the middle of a scramble or from a variety of ties. 

I don't agree with the last part. He has two "above the waist" attacks, though "attack" might be the wrong word. Early in his career, the over-tie shrug and over-under inside trip (I consider this as an upper body tech) were his go-tos. His early success with these techniques sorta ended up being a curse. Esp the inside trip. Big time, crowd-pleasing technique when it worked, but the opportunities just weren't there when folks recognized he didn't have much else. (BTW he had a similar problem on bottom. His go-to was a leg wing-roll?).

Another area that I imagined would improve was his scrambling. Again, early in his career, he had success with a few flashy techniques: the rubber-knee to that switch position reach thing, the water-fall position far-ankle scramble, and combinations of the two. Problem is that he got too comfortable giving up his legs. 

relying on an inside trip is also a real problem because you can't really keep it in the match unless you're sort of "up" in your stance, which isn't gonna maximize leg attacks. Its the type of technique that should feel like a surprise to the whole room, therefore it doesn't really have a place in an someones overall style. His shrug is similar, its a great technique but if anything it stagnates other options. Compare that to John Smith's so single, which forced reactions, leaning, grabbing and made his elbows basically unstoppable.

[mspart]

This is what I am saying.   He needs to figure out what he needs to beat the best.   He is not there yet, but could be with the right coaching and work. 

mspart

[Hammerlock3]

He also relied on his top work in both styles. Being good on top can make some other feel freer on their feet, others let it make them less active.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

He also relied on his top work in both styles. Being good on top can make some other feel freer on their feet, others let it make them less active.

... and how often is he hitting his trapped arm gut at the senior level?  The one what he set up with a leg-in?  It is still a great technique, but my guess is that everyone has gameplanned it.

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

... and how often is he hitting his trapped arm gut at the senior level?  The one what he set up with a leg-in?  It is still a great technique, but my guess is that everyone has gameplanned it.

yeah exactly. Its like his problems in neutral, that technique if fine in itself, but if it's not making his opponent make any tough decisions it doesn't iterate that well.

[jackwebster]

3 hours ago, maligned said:

His "lack", as you agreed, is "anytime" outside or upper-body setups and attacks.

Word, that's why I'm suspicious of calling that shrug and trip "attacks." 

Re folk/free: you're right, of course, but he did use that leg wingroll from a quad-pod  -- a la Kendall Cross -- to expose Gilman in that best of three. I think that was the deciding sequence in that match and possibly the defining moment of the series.

Edit: I think RBY said something like "Fix is pretty traditional, but Vito is dangerous bc of his ability to attack from any angle." This sounds about right.

Edited September 20 by jackwebster