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Will Iowa be the first top-5 team to field a MAJORITY transfer lineup?

Jimmy Cinnabon

By Jimmy Cinnabon
in College Wrestling

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Truzzcat
Truzzcat

should have lost to deprez and Aiello :[

flyingcement
flyingcement

Voinovich hasn't made 141 in more than five years.  Did he lose a limb recently?

KCMO2
KCMO2

Brands would take 10 Taliban in his lineup if it would help him win a title.

Dogbone NCAA Qualifier

Dogbone

Posted
Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 4:30 PM, fishbane said:

The same way I can accurately say David Taylor improved at PSU

 

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Yes, guys who enter college rooms get better.  But do guys who wrestle in other college rooms get better after they transfer to PSU?  Recently examples would suggest no.

Truax got better at Cal Poly then transfered to PSU and objectively had his worst NCAA finish.  He didn't transfer to PSU to get fifth. 

  On 8/28/2024 at 4:30 PM, fishbane said:

I don't see how I cherry picked anything.

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Claiming a guy who went from 7th to 6th is an improvement while stating a guy who went from 2nd to 3rd is a no change and 4th to 5th is a no change is not consistent.  Sorry you are not cherry picking your selections just being inconsistent with how you apply improved v. no change in favor of PSU.  

For the record, I think most of them are no change and a podium spot one way or the other isn't inductive of a change.  Heck a different ref in the Deprez quarter and Dean would of been a "got worse" when in reality he was about the same, wrested in a different weight class and came out on top before regressing his senior year.

  On 8/28/2024 at 4:30 PM, fishbane said:

Sanderson 2009 at ISU 20-9, 4th Big 12, 2-2 DNP NCAAs.  2010 at PSU 32-7, Big Ten Champ, 6th NCAAs.

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I can't believe how much better Cyler's got when he wasn't in the same conference as Jordan Burroughs.   His previous coaches must not known anything about wrestling....

 

 

  • Bob 1
fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, Dogbone said:

Truax got better at Cal Poly then transfered to PSU and objectively had his worst NCAA finish. 

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How so?  He was 4th at Cal Poly in 2023 and 5th at PSU in 2024.  In 2023 he lost to the 2nd place finisher Tanner Sloan and the 3rd place finisher Rocky Elam.  In 2024 he lost to the 2nd place finisher Dustin Plott and the 3rd place finisher Trey Munoz.  There is no wrestle off between 4th and 5th at NCAAs. So there is nothing to distinguish the placements.    He also scored more bonus points at NCAAs in 2024 than in 2023 or 2022 or 2021 when he finished 4th. He had also lost to Trey Munoz back in 2022 whilst at Cal Poly.

What makes it objectively worse?  Because the brackets were configured a little different and he wrestled the 3rd place finisher earlier?  I don't see it.  Truax also changed weights when the transferred to PSU.  I'd have to think if 184 was his best weight he would have been there in 2023 at Cal Poly.  I'm sure the goal was to win an individual national title at PSU, but he also won a team title and to be part of that had to be at 184.

  On 8/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, Dogbone said:

Claiming a guy who went from 7th to 6th is an improvement while stating a guy who went from 2nd to 3rd is a no change and 4th to 5th is a no change is not consistent.  Sorry you are not cherry picking your selections just being inconsistent with how you apply improved v. no change in favor of PSU.  

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Sanderson didn't go from 7th to 6th he went 7th (ISU)->DNP (ISU)->6th (PSU).  If he had been 7th the year before transferring to PSU it would be inconsistent, but that's not what happened.

Long went from 2nd to 3rd and that's similar to 4th/5th with Truax there is no wrestle off for true second at NCAAs.  Moreover the NCAA placement was the only thing that was worse between those seasons.

2010 ISU: 27-7, 2nd Big 12s, 2nd NCAAs at 125

2011 PSU: 20-2, 1st Big Tens, 3rd NCAAs at 133

So he had a better regular season record, won a conference title and was 1 spot worse at NCAAs all at a higher weight.  He also scored more team points at NCAAs in 2011 than in 2010. In my opinion there is a better case for him being improved in 2011 than worse.

  • Bob 1
Dogbone NCAA Qualifier

Dogbone

Posted
Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, Dogbone said:

Truax got better at Cal Poly then transfered to PSU and objectively had his worst NCAA finish. 

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  On 8/28/2024 at 7:49 PM, fishbane said:

How so?  He was 4th at Cal Poly in 2023 and 5th at PSU in 2024. 

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Will just have to agree to disagree on whether 5th place is a worse finish than 4th place.

1032004 Big Brain

1032004

Posted
Posted
  On 8/28/2024 at 6:53 PM, Dogbone said:

 

Truax got better at Cal Poly then transfered to PSU and objectively had his worst NCAA finish.  

 

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Technically he did score the same amount of team points in 2024 than 2022 (but less than 2023 and 2021).  Although not sure if would have been less without 3 point takedown

  • Bob 1
Truzzcat NCAA Champion

Truzzcat

Posted
Posted

according to flows new rankings not including bonus points if rankings held national scores would be..

PSU: 124
Iowa: 103.5
OK state: 59.5
Nebraska: 57
Ohio state: 49.5

Important thinks to note PSU is getting no points at 125 they removed davis I think Lilledahl goes high on the podium. Iowa is also receiving zero points at 125 but unless Peterson can get down I think that is accurate. Levi is ranked second at 174 I personally think thats going to be facundo in either scenario I think I would have both behind Welsh and Hamiti personally I just think its a big Jump for Levi in one year. They have Carter 1 at 184 and Cochran at 197 at 21 which would get maybe ).5 points? I think they get more points at 197 if Barr goes. 

I am the personal property of VakAttack

Gus Big Brain

Gus

Posted
Posted
  On 8/29/2024 at 12:41 PM, Truzzcat said:

according to flows new rankings not including bonus points if rankings held national scores would be..

PSU: 124
Iowa: 103.5
OK state: 59.5
Nebraska: 57
Ohio state: 49.5

Important thinks to note PSU is getting no points at 125 they removed davis I think Lilledahl goes high on the podium. Iowa is also receiving zero points at 125 but unless Peterson can get down I think that is accurate. Levi is ranked second at 174 I personally think thats going to be facundo in either scenario I think I would have both behind Welsh and Hamiti personally I just think its a big Jump for Levi in one year. They have Carter 1 at 184 and Cochran at 197 at 21 which would get maybe ).5 points? I think they get more points at 197 if Barr goes. 

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If they rolled Mirasola out at 197 they would likely get more than .5 points also. 

Gus Big Brain

Gus

Posted
Posted
  On 8/29/2024 at 12:41 PM, Truzzcat said:

according to flows new rankings not including bonus points if rankings held national scores would be..

PSU: 124
Iowa: 103.5
OK state: 59.5
Nebraska: 57
Ohio state: 49.5

Important thinks to note PSU is getting no points at 125 they removed davis I think Lilledahl goes high on the podium. Iowa is also receiving zero points at 125 but unless Peterson can get down I think that is accurate. Levi is ranked second at 174 I personally think thats going to be facundo in either scenario I think I would have both behind Welsh and Hamiti personally I just think its a big Jump for Levi in one year. They have Carter 1 at 184 and Cochran at 197 at 21 which would get maybe ).5 points? I think they get more points at 197 if Barr goes. 

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For what it is worth Wrestles stat currently has PSU middle weights as 157- Kasak, 165- Haines, 174- Messenbrink, 184- Starocci.

  • Bob 1
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Big Brain

Interviewed_at_Weehawken

Posted
Posted
  On 8/29/2024 at 1:23 PM, Gus said:

If they rolled Mirasola out at 197 they would likely get more than .5 points also. 

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Not that Iowa is thinking this far ahead, but if it looks like they can make things tighter than PSU is comfortable with, Cael might be forced to pull Mirasola out of redshirt before he would normally be comfortable with.

#1. I don't think they are thinking this far ahead

#2. I don't think it'll be that close.

fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted
  On 8/29/2024 at 12:26 PM, 1032004 said:

Technically he did score the same amount of team points in 2024 than 2022 (but less than 2023 and 2021).  Although not sure if would have been less without 3 point takedown

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I said more bonus points not total team points.  He of course got more placement points in 2021-2023.  The difference in placement points between 4th and 5th is 2, which will put him at a disadvantage in team point scoring in 2024 vs 2021-23.  It's a full pinfall he needs to make up from placement points.

All 4 years he either lost in the quarterfinals or the semifinals.  From an advancement point perspective it is the same number of placement points (3) to the consi-semis 2 via either path.  When losing in the semis it's 3 advancement points in the championship bracket.  When losing in the quarters it's 2 in the championship and 1 in the consis, which comes from two consolation matches.  He lost in the semis in 2021 and 2022 and the quarters in 2023 and 2024.  Of course winning in the consi-semis 2 gives him an extra 0.5 advancement so losing to the 3rd place finisher a round earlier in 2024 cost Truax 0.5 advancement and 2 placement points.

Truax would need to make up a 2.5 point deficit in bonus to score more total points.  In 2021 he score 1.5 bonus points, 2022 0 bonus points, 2023 1 bonus point, and 2024 2.5 bonus points.  He had 1 more match in 2023 and 2024 when he lost in the quarters, but didn't score bonus points in either R12 match.  As you pointed out he had the benefit of the 3 point TD in 2024 which gave him an advantage over other years. 

fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted

On FRL today CP said OSU could have 7 transfers starting.  Looking at wrestlestat this is what I pout together.  I see 6 transfers starting.  Who am I missing?

125: Spratley

133: Hughes/Witcraft

141: Jamison

149: Young

157: Travis

165: Amine/Fish

174: Hamiti

184: Plott

197: Surber

285: Hendrickson

Interviewed_at_Weehawken Big Brain

Interviewed_at_Weehawken

Posted
Posted
  On 8/29/2024 at 3:49 PM, fishbane said:

On FRL today CP said OSU could have 7 transfers starting.  Looking at wrestlestat this is what I pout together.  I see 6 transfers starting.  Who am I missing?

125: Spratley

133: Hughes/Witcraft

141: Jamison

149: Young

157: Travis

165: Amine/Fish

174: Hamiti

184: Plott

197: Surber

285: Hendrickson

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Wasn't Amine certified at 157 last year?

ionel Big Brain

ionel

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 8/29/2024 at 3:49 PM, fishbane said:

On FRL today CP said OSU could have 7 transfers starting.  Looking at wrestlestat this is what I pout together.  I see 6 transfers starting.  Who am I missing?

125: Spratley

133: Hughes/Witcraft

141: Jamison

149: Young

157: Travis

165: Amine/Fish

174: Hamiti

184: Plott

197: Surber

285: Hendrickson

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Ayala 133?  😉

Also Teague Travis transferred to Stillwater high after 3 years in Missouri.  🤷‍♀️

Edited by ionel

.

Interviewed_at_Weehawken Big Brain

Interviewed_at_Weehawken

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 8/29/2024 at 3:59 PM, fishbane said:

No idear.  Maybe Fish or Amine at 157 was what they had in mind. Seven transfers would be one more than Iowa fielded last year.  Not sure if that makes for a top 5 team.  Probably close.

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Who were Iowa's 6?  Are we talking starters for post-season? (I thought it was 4?)

Edited by Interviewed_at_Weehawken
fishbane NCAA All-American

fishbane

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 8/29/2024 at 4:09 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Who were Iowa's 6?  Are we talking starters for post-season? (I thought it was 4?)

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Iowa used this lineup for two duals last season.  The topic says field a team and doesn't mention postseason.  Swafford received an overlooked gambling ban and Voinovich lost his spot to Rathjen.

133 Brody Teske

141 Real Woods

149 Victor Voinovich

157 Jared Franek

165 Michael Caliendo

184 Brennan Swafford

Edited by fishbane

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